Next step – Please help (Rega Planar 3)

Hi,

I’m new here, and quite frankly pretty new to the whole hi-fi-world aswell. Pardon my ignorance and sloppy english.

About seven months ago I got my hands on a pretty decent collection of records. I had been thinking about getting into vinyl for a while, and I thought now is the time to give this a try.

With help from my local dealer I bought myself a Rega Planar 1, a Denon PMA-800NE amplifier (Built in RIIA-step) and a pair of Bowers & Wilkins 606 speakers. After that I have never looked back, and I have fallen in love with this new way («new» for me anyway) to enjoy my favourite music.

After years with listening to music through «cheap» bluetooth-speakers and bad headphones this was like a whole new world to me. While spinning my best records I thought: «Can it really get much better than this?» Apparantly it can. Much better.

I want to take the next step. I want to upgrade my turntable, and im thinking about the Planar 3 (Im no sure why, but i want it to be a Rega again), but I have some questions I was hoping you guys could help me with.

Here it goes:

1)Will the upgrade from P1 (no upgrades) to a P3 make a significant improvment in terms of listening experience for a guy who is fresh in this «game»? Is the P3 good in terms of «bang for the buck»?

2) Im hearing very bad things about the cartridge Elys2 on this forum, but my budget wont allow me to buy both the Planar 3 and a better cartridge right now. I mean, is the Elys2 that bad?

3) Is it better to buy tons of upgrades to the P1 instead?

4)Is the built in RIAA-step in my amplifier sufficient enough for the Planar 3 (and potential upgrades on it in the future)?

5)Say I buy the P3, and a year from now I change the Elys to a Exact. What is the next step after that? Big or small.

Nobody in my social circle shares this interest, so I dont really have a reference point except from my local dealer. Im sure some of this questions have been asked before, but I felt the need to gather the information I get. Sorry about that.

While im at it, let me say thank you. This forum theaches me new stuff all the time.

 

I think you have a few choices. What would be you time frame to gather the extra money for the upgraded cartridge? If it's a year or so, you could just get the Exact for the Planar 1, then get the Planar 3 later. This would save you the expense of the throwaway Elys. The other option would be to get something like a Nagakoa MP-110, which is going to be less expensive than any of the Rega cartridges.

I am no going to comment on whether your amps phono stage is sufficient, too many variables. But I probably is as a starting point. The stock Carbon cartridge is an extremely low voltage output for an MM cartridges. There are MC cartridges that output more voltage. A proper Rega cartridge is actually very high voltage, actually about double that of the Carbon. Most other MM cartridges are somewhere in between these extremes.

Beyond the cartridge upgrade, I would not upgrade much on a Planar 1. This deck and the Planar 2 are really not worth upgrading. This is especially true if you are using it as a stepping stone to the next level. If your intent is go with the Planar 3 as you next deck, there is one upgrade that would be worth it, because it can be transferred to the Planar 3. This would be a metal subplatter. There are expensive ones like the GrooveTracer, but I honestly wouldn't recommend this spending that much as it would delay your other purchases. There are much cheaper options like a Tango Spinner that are about a 1/3rd the price. If you are planning on getting the subplatter for the Planar 1 and expect to transfer it to a Planar 3 at a later point, I recommend you get an extra ceramic ball bearing. The steel bearing that it replaces is easy to remove with a magnet. I tend to think a ceramic bearing will cause you some grief to remove it once it's installed. These ceramic bearings are fairly cheap. I bought a couple of them on eBay from a vendor in Portugal for about $8 USD shipped. I dropped the one onto the floor that came with my subplatter and it just disappeared. I got a 2nd one for other Rega deck because they were so inexpensive.

 

The Planar 3 is a fairly big step up. If you can afford the Exact rather than the Elys do that too. I wouldn’t think further ahead than than that for now. The next step would be something like the RP6/Ania combo, but that’s double the price and more unless you go to the used market.

 

Thank you very much for the views. I really appreciate it.

If I end up buying the planar 3 I will probably try out the Elys for a while. If it turns out to be miserable then I should be able to upgrade it over the next three to four months.

Planar 3 costs 1040 USD here in Norway. You don't get it without the elys2. Rega Exact is 460 USD. Altogether there will be 1500 USD.
A Planar 6 with Exact costs 1724 USD, so the difference is not that big.

If the Elys is so hopeless then maybe it's just as good to wait and go for a Planar 6?

In that case: With such a "leap" (to a P6) in my table, is the rest of my setup good enough?

 

The negative comments you read on this forum about the Elys 2 are hyperbole, its a very good cartridge to start out with. Also, ignore the comments about replacing the subplatter its a needless expense. I would put my money towards an Exact and a Neo PSU when I could. My RP3 was similarly equiped (TTPSU) and I was happy with it for 4 1/2 years.

 

My experience of the Elyse nearly made me give up on LPs. It is horrible to my ears. Avoid and save up for the Exact. Dont waste your hard earned money.

 

Good point. Only downside is if it'll be a long wait for you to be able to scrape together the $1724 USD for the Planar 6 with Exact.

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Put me in the camp of the ElysII haters. Worst cart I have owned.

I do think that upgrading the cart and keeping the P1 would have the most noticeable impact immediately and would be better than upgrading the table and being stuck with a mediocre cartridge. Might also allow you to save a bit for the next step up. I think the P6 is the sweet spot in the Rega line, though I must admit that I think there are better options as I am not a bug Rega fan. Not saying that they are not great, just not my favorite. I would be all over a new SL-1500C before a P3.

 

Let me compliment you on your "sloppy" English - I've seen and heard much sloppier language from some native speakers, so - you're in pretty good shape, my friend.

 

Just as another member here, I'm not a Rega guy myself. But, if you must have a Rega, then your reasoning is right - for only a couple of hundred more, if you can get the Planar 6 instead of 3 - it will be a HUGE upgrade. Going from previous generation P1 to today's Planar 3 is already a magnificent upgrade, but going to today's Planar 6 will be like making a quantum leap into another galaxy.

As far as cartridge vs. table choice of priority - a more modest cartridge will sound better on a better table than a fancier cartridge on an inferior table. So, my advise is upgrade to Planar 6 first, even if you can't afford a new cartridge, and then upgrade the cartridge later in time.

 

In seems like for most people, cartridges come and go. Turntables stay around. I’d choose solely based on the turntable, based on the likelihood that I wouldn’t have the Rega cartridge for more than a few years. The comments here about the Elys don’t match my impressions, but I’ve learned that I am not going to find anyone here whose experiences and preferences exactly match mine. That said, I would without a doubt get a P3 if I were in the OP’s situation. Then at some point I’d put a Dynavector cartridge on it...or a Hana...oh wait, maybe a Goldring. Let’s see, maybe a Benz.

 

My experience is a bit different, I think most folks go lower on their cartridge than they should and it is fine to go big on the cartridge. I get a bit aggravated when I see manufacturers stuffing a cheapo cartridge on a nice table, kinda like McIntosh putting a Sumiko BPS2 on a $5000 table or Technics putting the red and not the blue on the SL-1500C.

Of course this is dependent on the table being "good enough" to not cause any harm. I am not sure that the P1 falls in this category as I have no experience with it. I know that I am generally not impressed with most of the sub $500 tables being sold new today, but I have friends with them and they are perfectly happy.

I am one that loves to mess with cartridges and am always surprised at how I react to them as a rotate them. I recently put the Sumiko BPS3 back on the Perspex and was a bit surprised at how good it is, as I have been running the MP500 on that TT for quite awhile. I think this is why I want to get back to a table with a removable shell so I can get back to rotating carts.

 

To stay at a certain price point. The Blue is more than twice the price of the Red.

You and me both - that's partly why I'm not a Rega fan myself. But the OP insists on a Rega, hence the advice. Besides, logic would have it that if you are willing to wait to put together some more money - it makes more sense to go for the better table, that may potentially be your end-game TT, period. Cartridges are by default replaceable - he can always get another one a bit later, and the budget for it takes a lot less time to put together. If, however, you splurge on a fancier cart now - it only takes away money needed for the better table, and makes the waiting time that much longer.

And that logic, I believe, is why they put fairy modest carts on better tables - they know those modest carts will sound quite good on better quality tables, and the inevitable upgrade is never too far away, anyway. I have yet to see anyone putting a really good cart on an entry-level table. The only example that comes to mind is the MMF 7.3 that comes with 2M Bronze - but the MMF 7.3 is hardly entry-level, really.

 

When I first got a Rega, it was a used P5. It came with a very lightly used Elys. I eventually put a Benz cartridge on it that I think had a retail list price around that of the turntable, maybe higher. The current P3 is likely as good as the P5 was. For all I care, they could give me the Rega Carbon. I’d eventually put something very nice on it.

 

We think alike.

 

What is frustrating to me is that the 2M series worked brilliantly on the RP3. Hell the headshell is even cut to match it (thought the alignment is not with it evenly matched up!)
I sometimes wonder if the ElysII is not correctly aligned with the Rega three point screws. I swear it actually sounded a cartridge with a botched alignment (dull, sibilant, big time IGD). I wonder if it might have been better to pull the front screw and play with it a bit, but I had many better carts so I didn't pursue.

My issue with the Rega was the light weigh, the (lack of) torque on the motor and the glass platter. None of which made it a bad table, just not what I like to use. FWIW, my Oracle/SME is probably the best combo I will ever own, but I still enjoy spinning records more on my 1200MkII. Not saying they sound better, just that I enjoy the process better.

 

Hi. For the sake of $224, I would go the Planar 6 route if you can. As well as the differences to the deck compared with the 3 (albeit largely the same arm, bar the balance weight) you get the newish Neo power supply unit with the 6, which will improve speed accuracy. But if your dealer is friendly, try to hear both and let your ears decide. Not to jump ahead, but the 6 will also future proof you better, and give you the longer term option of moving to an MC cartridge like the Ania, with a suitable MC phono stage, like the Rega Fono MC, if you want to eventually go down the road. Don’t be shy of asking for a discount - you might get 5-10%.

 

Well thank you!

I did just that. Went to the dealer and got to hear both the P3 and P6 (with the Exact).

I must say that I thought the elys sounded pretty good. But then he dropped the exact with the P6 and that was that. Im saving up! I'm having a hard time explaining what I felt was better, but the sound was just more "out in the room", where the elys was more straight forward. It was like the first time I fired up my P1, wich was sort of a listening-revolution for me! (I guess I understand the never-ending "chase" now).

I will have to wait for a while, and I prob would be very happy with the P3 right now, but as Benzion suggested the P6 could prove to be my "end game" when it comes to tables. I'm glad I didn't listen to it with the Ania. It feels good to have drawn the line somewhere, and start to look forward to something im sure I will enjoy something fierce.

I really appreciate all the feedback here. Thank you all! I hope I get the same response when i'm in the market for a new cartridge!