Next Upgrade Advice..... HELP!

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Flowingrobes76, Nov 25, 2021.

  1. Flowingrobes76

    Flowingrobes76 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Rochester, ny
    Hi all, first post so thanks in advance for your assistance!

    I'm somewhat of a newbie in the 2 channel HiFi world but have been obsessed with tone and good sound for 25 years. I've been in bands and built an in home music studio where I recorded my band as well as local bands. Music has always been a huge part of my life and it's no surprise that I've found myself obsessed with vinyl and here a SH member. Enough rambling.... let me tell you my current rig and then get to my questions.

    I have a MoFi Studiodeck with their Master Tracker MM cart, Project s2 phono pre, Denon Al24, Polk PSW 505 subwoofer and Klipsch Heresy IV's.

    I've ordered a Decware Zen Triode SE341.5 (6 watt) tube amp which I should have in a few months.... after waiting almost a year. I'm highly considering replacing the Polk sub which is currently being "borrowed" from my main TV system for a Rel t/7x. I've got the Polk dialed in just right and it definitely fills out the fq spectrum and adds weight to the music but I can't help but feel it's a home theater sub currently masquerading as a music sub at the moment. I want something faster that will blend in even more seamlessly.

    As for my questions. My Decware amp only has 1 set of RCA outs. Can I split that signal between an amp and subwoofer? Is there a better option to consider??

    Question 2: Should I consider upgrading my phono stage next or linear power supply, inner connects or other? My Project S2 is okay but certainly doesn't give that black background many talk about. With my high efficiency speakers I hear EVERYTHING which can be a blessing and a curse.

    Love to hear your thoughts. Thanks in advance for all your suggestions and knowledge sharing!
    Rick58 likes this.
  2. Madness

    Madness "Hate is much too great a burden to bear."

    Maryland, USA
    Welcome to the forum!

    That Decware amp has two sets of unbalanced inputs. Those RCA plugs are not for output. I don't understand your question about connecting that amp to an IS an amp. You can probably use the same binding posts for your speakers and a sub woofer if the subwoofer has inputs for speaker cables.

    Also, please list your equipment in your profile so other members don't have to go back tou your OP to see what equipment you have.
    macster, beowulf and jesterthejedi like this.
  3. Rick58

    Rick58 Forum Resident

    Eagle, ID, USA
    IMHO, THIS is an absolute mind-blowing musical sub ... LINK REMOVED SEE BELOW

    EDIT/PS: NOW I"m upset. The sale item is NOT the latest version that comes with the remote app ... THIS is the link for that one, still $600. JERKS. I'm going to complain to them, it seems deceptive that they're offloading a discontinued item like that. IS THE ONE I BOUGHT.

    SO, SORRY, I'd still recommend getting the SB1000 PRO which is MUCH better IMHO with the app to set things up remotely. This one includes a 3 band parametric EQ which IMHO is ESSENTIAL to get the best performance. I dialed 'out' three main room modes for a much flatter and more musical/articulate response. I got things 'flat' in my room from 60Hz (my low pass filter setting) to 20Hz (below which there's a fixed attenuation built in so one can't blow the thing up). I can't recommend this thing enough. DAMN SHAME on SVS for their near-deceptive 'Black Friday' sale ...

    The SB1000 Pro is (still) $600, recently increased from $500 which I paid.

    If you're really into it, get two, and set them up as L and R near/behind your main speakers if possible. IIUC that would give you the best stereo performance, and any soundstage information <60Hz or whatever the crossover frequency you choose.

    Has line and speaker-level inputs, they both have high impedance so won't load down your amp whichever one you use. Possibly you'll need to run parallel speaker cables (one set to the sub). IMHO you can use cheap speaker wire for this to the sub. The sub has all controls (use the app for remote) so can be dialed in just so.

    The Decware Zen Triode Integrated tube amplifier model SE34I.5

    You may optionally add variable line-level outputs, one for each channel. These outputs can be used to drive a second amplifier (bi-amping) or send a signal to a powered sub-woofer. Either way the signature of this amplifier right down to the tubes that are in it will be embedded into the line-level output. This creates a seamless blend between the amp and whatever it's paired with.

    If you didn't order this option, don't despair. Hook up the sub like I said above (and/or call Decware to discuss).
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
    jesterthejedi likes this.
  4. Rick58

    Rick58 Forum Resident

    Eagle, ID, USA
    for sure at some point, get some good cables. Maybe discuss with Steve … I recently got Synergistic Research Foundation balanced ICs from pre to amp for a nice upgrade from already-good Analysis Plus Micro Copper Oval-in.

    They were $600 but to me worth it, as the depth and space behind the speakers and rear wall took on a solidity and palpability that heretofore eluded me.

    Then I got Morrow SP4 biwire speaker cables which matched or bettered my AP Oval 9 cables (which are now 2x the price of the Morrows).

    I use Shunyata and AP power cords (the <$150 ones) which I now think are a good thing to do.

    OH … room treatment. GIK makes some semi-affordable stuff.

    The above comments on sonic improvements with IC and speaker cable changes came about AFTER I had installed a decent set of GIK panels and traps. Things became much more articulate and the bass is now flat as I said to 20Hz (which I think now is likely impossible without room treatment and parametric EQ).

    Welcome and enjoy the life long journey.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2021
  5. Cipriano

    Cipriano Active Member

    sw usa
    This recommendation might seem strange but I would get another amplifier for comparison purposes. Your Decware is a highly specialized amp. It's kind of like taking up casual drinking and buying a whole case of Creme De Menthe. You might love it or it might gather dust for the next decade! I would get a Bruno Putzeys designed amp from the Purifi brand or the Hypex Ncore line. Then I would listen to your Decware for 2 weeks then swap in the Putzeys for 2 weeks. Rotate them like this for a few months and you will have an idea of what kind of amplification you really connect with.

    Brands to look at would be Nord, March, Boxem, Buckeye, and VTV. As far as connecting the sub, I would just run the speaker wire to the sub then out to your Heresy's. That would be easiest.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2021
    Rick58 and timind like this.
  6. beowulf

    beowulf Forum Resident

    Chula Vista, CA
    Congrats on the Decware Rachel, excellent amp! You shouldn’t have any issues driving your Heresy speakers with those 6 watts.

    If you didn’t order it with the outputs @Rick58 mentioned… there may still be time to add them if it hasn’t gone into production yet.

    If not, you can use the speaker binding posts on the Rachel for your sub hookup (make sure the sub you choose has flexible options for this type of connection).

    For fast/music based subs, I would look for a sealed/unported box from REL, SVS, Rythmik, etc. Should be some good deals going on right now.
    Rick58 likes this.
  7. Rick58

    Rick58 Forum Resident

    Eagle, ID, USA
    I got a reply from SVS customer service this morning. He said the Previous black Friday sales have been met with extreme enthusiasm, which I don’t doubt. But still to me selling a discontinued item without actually making that clear isn’t the best business practice.

    “Thanks for the feedback on our Black Friday sale event.

    We have run a similar Black Friday promotion for the past several years now and it has been a massive home run every year. It started with the NSD-series, then went to the 2000-series and now this year we're doing both the 1000-series and the 2000-series.

    While they have indeed been replaced by the Pro versions, these subwoofers are new production (made earlier this year) A-stock models.

    The 1000-series and 2000-series were our most popular subwoofers at the time and they are priced considerably lower than their Pro counterparts. Black Friday sales have been extremely brisk and customers are thrilled to have this opportunity.”

    Again, to make my point, the non-pro models do not include the remote control app nor the three band parametric EQ. These items are well worth the extra hundred or $150 costs to get them.

    Actually I’m gonna call his bluff on this.

    The so-called black Friday sale price on the SB 1000 is most likely at the original retail price of that sub. To pretend that it’s a sale is again pretty deceptive. The fact that they recently raised the price of the SB 1000 pro by $100 sounds pretty suspicious. It’s all part of the marketing plan for the black Friday season. So gee, you can get an SB 1000 for $150 off … But it’s actually only $50 off from the brand new model, which has essential extra features. With supply and demand, and yes probably increased parts costs, they did raise the Pro version price by $100. The timing is just very suspicious, and sucks.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2021
  8. Rick58

    Rick58 Forum Resident

    Eagle, ID, USA
    As far as getting another amp to compare with the Decware, I can’t really comment on that but if you’re able to do that it would be a very interesting exercise. As far as hooking up the subwoofer, indeed what he described is an option for hooking up subwoofers. Personally, I have found that running the main speakers full range with a separate cable connection and then running the subwoofer to fill in the low bass and then blend with the natural low end roll off of the main speakers is at least my preference.

    Doing it the way the poster described uses the internal filtering of the subwoofer to roll off the bass response of the main speakers. You’re not really gaining much IMHO with this arrangement.

    You could be affecting the sound from the main speakers in a negative way as well, as their driving signal goes through the subwoofer components.
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2021
  9. Flowingrobes76

    Flowingrobes76 Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Rochester, ny
    Thank you all so much for your input! I think the best thing I can do is give Decware a call and add the Variable Output option. It will give me more options for the future and as I don't intend on ever selling the amp it's a smart move.
    beowulf likes this.

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