Nick Cave album - CARNAGE

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Wild Frank, Jan 7, 2021.

  1. dlemaudit

    dlemaudit Forum Resident

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    France, Paris area
    Never mind that , the hair implants are unforgivable :)
     
  2. Sordel

    Sordel Forum Resident

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    Switzerland
    I was being tongue-in-cheek mentioning “Hey Jude”. Yes, “Tender” is probably a closer relative.

    In other news, I've now listened through the album a couple of times and so far I'd say it was quite good. Mind you, my first impressions of a recent Nick Cave album have rarely converted into long-term listening.
     
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  3. twicks

    twicks Forum Resident

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    Detroit
    Today I learned that "O Children" is one of Nick's most-streamed songs due to its inclusion in a Harry Potter movie. Huh.
     
  4. Ernold

    Ernold Look up the number

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    Adrift
    A lot of people seem to frequent Cave forums simply to say that they can't get into Ghosteen, resent Warren Ellis' involvement and only like albums with Blixa on them.

    Odd.
     
  5. twicks

    twicks Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit
    Not really surprising. Music inspires passion in listeners.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
  6. Neonbeam

    Neonbeam All Art Was Once Contemporary

    Location:
    Planet Earth
    This seems to be a really harsh assessment. Especially since The Bad Seeds always seemed like a collective and not a John, Paul, George & Ringo type of band. Besides: Don't you think "Nick Cave" alone is "brand" enough to attract people?
    You weren't there so I would be careful with giving a judgement. Like Bowie or Young Cave seems to need certain foils during certain periods. And obviously that can change. People either accept or don't accept it. Personally I have no preference for either Harvey or Ellis. The fact that the albums continued to sound vital and creative is what counts. And Blixa? I found it amazing to manage that balancing act for as long as he did. Being involved with two major international acts is no small feat.

    Not because he has been consistently making very good records? Perhaps?

    :laughup:

    Guys, are you actually listening to the albums?
     
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  7. SoporJoe

    SoporJoe Forum Resident

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    British Columbia
    Albums with both Blixa AND Warren must really be confusing them!
     
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  8. Neonbeam

    Neonbeam All Art Was Once Contemporary

    Location:
    Planet Earth
    I think "Carnage" is an - to quote "Balcony Man" - amazing album. It's remarkable how Cave manages to sense looming cul-de-sacs and to do a volte-face. And after the sprawling "Ghosteen" these 40 minutes are exactly what's needed. Like all his best albums it sounds unmistakably like Nick Cave yet unlike any other record in his catalogue. Which definitely makes this worthwhile.

    The fact that he basically gave it away for free - when he easily could have charged... well I guess most of you will remember his online concert last year :uhhuh: - is a really nice gesture as well.

    Bottom line: People should be thankful that artists like Cave and Weller are still putting out interesting and very good music on such a regular basis - even in circumstances like this. It's reassuring and encouraging. Like coffee.
     
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  9. Ernold

    Ernold Look up the number

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    Yes, of course. My point was that, if critics appear to favour him, it is because of the sort of musician he is, not because his son passed away.
     
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  10. Ernold

    Ernold Look up the number

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    Not sure moaning about an artist you apparently gave up on 20 years ago is "passion"...
     
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  11. twicks

    twicks Forum Resident

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    Detroit
    I think the point is that passionate fans never give up; they're always hoping to hear something they'll end up loving.

    FWIW I think "20,000 Days On Earth" is one of the best things Nick has ever done.
     
    dlemaudit likes this.
  12. TerpStation

    TerpStation "Music's not for everyone."

    Location:
    Maryland
    Regarding the thought that newer fans don't listen to the old catalog, i will say that on tour his shows include many older songs. So newer fans are exposed, somewhat, to works older than Abattoir Blues / The Lyre of Orpheus.
     
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  13. Neonbeam

    Neonbeam All Art Was Once Contemporary

    Location:
    Planet Earth
    Yeah but I'm not sure this applies to Cave because he seems to be in a rather unique and enviable position that his catalogue doesn't have any real clunker and more or less constantly gained respect. Compare that to Bowie were virtually every album got compared to "Scary Monsters" for a while to the point where it became a cliché. There's "Nocturama" but even that is by no means a bad record.
     
  14. Neonbeam

    Neonbeam All Art Was Once Contemporary

    Location:
    Planet Earth
    A site like Rate Your Music doesn't necessarily support the theory that newer fans dislike the older stuff.
     
  15. Ernold

    Ernold Look up the number

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    Adrift
    Brahms composed two piano concertos. There was a fairly big gap of time between them.

    The first was written as a relatively young man, and is a more volatile, passionate and intense piece than the more mellow and 'mature' second concerto.

    Why are people surprised that Nick Cave, at 63, isn't making the same sort of music he made in the 1980s and early 1990s?

    I mean, seriously.

    Don't confuse your personal nostalgia for a different era in his musical output with what he 'should' be doing right now.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
  16. twicks

    twicks Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit
    I think fans from "both camps" mostly recognize the quality of The Boatman's Call, which is a very mellow, mature album.

    If I can speculate, I think earlier fans miss the live instrumentation of the Bad Seeds and the very memorable tunes/melodies of the material from before he began collaborating intensely with Warren.
     
  17. Ernold

    Ernold Look up the number

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    I get the live instruments angle, but I disagree that he no longer writes memorable melodies. I'd call that idea nonsense, I'm afraid.

    Also, The Boatman's Call isn't really mellow, for me. And for that matter, I am not sure Ghosteen or Skeleton Tree are mellow albums.

    My point was that expecting the sort of music a young musician makes, from a much older one, is a daft pursuit.
     
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  18. jeddy

    jeddy Forum Resident

    Listen, I'm not hating on it I just think if you take all his tunes off of the last 3 or so albums and mash them all up they could sound like they were from the same album.
    I fear he may have lost his muse
    he just seems to "rap" lyrics over a soundscape........................................like too often

    get back to a conventional song structure Nick.
    write some "songs" again
     
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  19. TerpStation

    TerpStation "Music's not for everyone."

    Location:
    Maryland
    I imagine Cave is bored by the traditional song structure...by the confines of "rock and roll." The rock song requires the writing to fit within the song structure....thus, the song structure limits and defines, to a degree, the lyrics.

    However, Nick Cave appears not to want his writing limited by much of anything at this point in his life. I believe that is what he likes about working with Warren now and not a rock and roll band....Nick's writing, what he cares about the most, is not limited by song structure as his writing can be hung, unabridged, on warren's music.
     
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  20. Ernold

    Ernold Look up the number

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    This thing about 'rapping lyrics over a soundscape'... I'll ignore the inaccuracy of the verb there, but this is just such a general misrepresentation of his recent work.

    Waiting for You fits this description, does it? Really? Bright Horses? Carnage?

    I don't agree at all.

    He has clearly become, as TerpStation says above, more and more interested in the lyrics, and the poetry involved. The style of music he does now is, rather like Leonard Cohen's, as much about the words as the music, arguably more.

    I bet if Nick had recorded these songs with an acoustic guitar backing, rather than keyboards and synths, all the comments about 'no proper tunes' would suddenly, mysteriously disappear.
     
  21. twicks

    twicks Forum Resident

    Location:
    Detroit
    As good an explanation as any.
     
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  22. Adam Bosman

    Adam Bosman Forum Resident

    I guess I'm in the minority here, but I loved Ghosteen. One of my favorite pieces of Nick's work. I am ****ing blown away by Carnage. I think it's awesome and crazy and beautiful.
     
  23. TerpStation

    TerpStation "Music's not for everyone."

    Location:
    Maryland
    Yes, thinking about this i believe this trend in his records is about his not wanting to compromise his writing. Its really about that. The rock and roll song structure requires him to compromise his writing. He does not want to do that anymore. He is 63 and among the greatest living writers.

    I like the Leonard Cohen comparisons, but Cave is compromising his writing even less.
     
    Ernold likes this.
  24. Ernold

    Ernold Look up the number

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    I completely agree.

    The imagery (fire, trains, love, rain) on Carnage (the song) makes me think it was written at the same time as Ghosteen, but I could be wrong.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2021
  25. robcar

    robcar Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    I like all of his work. I don’t see any need to make distinctions. I’ve not seen any fall-off in quality. The early albums do suffer a little from a post-punk hangover, but that was a problem with a lot of 1980s British music. Once he gradually left the punk influences behind, his music really flowered and became more lush and melodic. He’s really sustained a very high level of quality, even if I think his peak came with AB/TLOO.
     
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