This comment I'm going to make has nothing to do with the music now. I preferred the Cave that didn't feel he had to share all that personal stuff. I find him utterly boring now that he is making himself so evident, so open about his psyche, his pathos and what not. For example, to me, 20 000 days on earth was just embarrasing. Those conversations with the therapist were simply obnoxious in their whole pretentiousness and vanity. To me, he managed to make himself look like a fool. I've read and seen so many interviews in which he was much much more profound, insightful, intelligent and fun. But he wasn't trying as hard as he is now to play the intellectual, the poet. He was a great artist in his own right. He didn't have to proof anything. I have always had him in the highest of esteems as an artist. But now it feels he's trying too hard. So he's just made a spectacle of his life that turned his music and his persona into something that bores me to death.
I find this a very cynical and somewhat odd response to Cave's approach. An artist does not need to be aloof - he/she does not need to remain hidden. But there's a human issue here, too. Firstly, it seems clear that Cave has needed to communicate his grief in order to actually process and deal with it. Why would you deny him that? Secondly, he is very likely doing many people enormous good by doing so. People who do not have the platform he has, or the powers of expression. These people are being consoled and counselled by Cave's openness. To dismiss all this is haughty, to say the least.
Nocturama is a good album, in my opinion. It is different, but I don't think bad. It may well be lesser than most of Nick's more accessible music, but that is still a pretty high bar in my opinion. Dig Lazarus Dig has a very alt rock vibe about it, and songs very much narrative based journey's, I like it, but some folks aren't that keen. Here are links to the album thread I did, and you can check them out Nocturama 2003 - Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread track 1 Wonderful Life Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread track 2 He Wants You Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread track 3 Right Out Of Your Hand Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread track 4 Bring It On Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread Bring it On Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread track 5 Dead Man In My Bed Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread track 6 Still In Love Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread track 7 There Is A Town Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread track 8 Rock Of Gibraltar Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread track 9 She Passed By My Window Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread track 10 Babe I'm On Fire Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread Babe I'm On Fire (please note that this video won't play in the US, but for everyone else ...)Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread Babe I'm On Fire US Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread Dig Lazarus Dig 2008 - Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread track 1 Dig Lazarus Dig Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread track 2 Today's Lesson Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread track 3 Moonland Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread track 4 Night Of The Lotus Eaters Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread Night Of The Lotus Eaters Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread track 5 Albert Goes West Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread track 6 We Call Upon The Author Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread track 7 Hold On To Yourself Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread track 8 Lie Down Here And Be My Girl Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread track 9 Jesus Of The Moon Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread track 10 Midnight Man Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread track 11 More New From Nowhere Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread More News From Nowhere Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread These are the complete reference lists if you want to check out anything else Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Album thread
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the multiple soundtracks that Nick Cave & Warren Ellis have released in the past decade? Ghosteen is a clear extension of that body of work. Except this time with Nick's personal lyrics over the top
To be honest it sounds like you had set Cave up in some box of your own making, and now he isn't there, you resent him. Your opinion is obviously your opinion and valid on that level, but I think your opinion is being guided by who you want him to be and not who he is. I haven't seen 20,000 days, but One More Time With Feeling was honest and straight forward, and if it is similarly done, I would disagree with your assessment .... but again you are obviously allowed to have your own opinion. Why you need to keep stating that you don't like him anymore on this thread though, is a bit of a head scratcher to me, and you seem more intent on insulting him, than critically breaking down what you think about the album.
I think you have clearly misunderstood my point. He may be hidden, or in plain sight. It's obviously his right to do whatever he wants. I find his artistic decline coinciding with his emotionally pedantic exposure. 20 000 days on earth being a proof of my point. Which, may I remind you, was filmed before the death of his son. The documentary about the recording of Skeleton Tree is also full of embarrasing moments, not so much because it shows the grieving but because it made me think of the vulgar exhibitionism and pedantry of it all. But if he needs to expose his grief, I have nothing against that. I seriously doubt anything like Ghosteen or One more time with feeling could really help anyone, but who am I to know what will help someone in grief. His artistic merit (or what I consider the decline of a talent) is the only thing that matters to me here. I agree with @bobbydriver in what he says about his latest albums being an extension of his soundtracks. Which I think are quite mediocre. And that's the problem for me with his latest albums: they've turned into some sort of soundtrack to a boring movie. And when I say boring movie I obviously don't mean his tragedy seems boring to me. The day I found out about his son's passing I was truly hurt, as when it happens to someone you care for. What's boring is the work he's been creating. I don't judge the circumstances, nor the creator, really. An artist is entitled to do whatever he or she wants. There's plenty of music out there to choose from.
I think you are right about not making much more sense going on adding to this thread, and this will be my last message in it. Please, remind everyone else too they should stick to "breaking down" what they think about the album. No excursus of any type, no matter how much one may think it is the basis of their opinion. Just stick to the album, nothing else. Someone needs to do the hard work of putting some order. It may as well be you.
Context. What you guys are talking about is context. Some people probably do like Ghosteen, given all of the context of tragedy from which it sprung. While others, perhaps don't like the album or the past few albums, given the context of Nick's newly found friendly personna, from which these albums also sprung. It's pretty difficult to ignore context, I think especially with an artist like Nick Cave. His fans have always been fascinated by The Man, The Myth!
I think the recent Nick Cave efforts are probably for people with different tastes than mine which is fine. I've listened to and enjoyed his music since Birthday Party but really anything after Abattoir Blues has just left me cold, PTSA, ST and Ghosteen really aren't my cup of tea at all. I don't mind that he's trying different stuff, and attracting new/ different fans who appreciate what he's bringing, but I really don't like it much, well at all really. Only one man's opinion but I find it dreary, drab and as one or two others have said, too reliant on his own personal tragedy in terms of source. I feel for what he's gone through, but and I don't mean this as bad as it might come across, but I don't really enjoy an album about it, let alone 3 inspired or moved by it. The songs nor the music do anything for me, which is a bit of a pain as I always enjoyed seeing him live but I really don't want to have to endure his recent catalogue. YMMV clearly applies on such a personal and subjective issue.
Perfectly understandable, straight forward opinion. For the record. Only Ghosteen is related to the "tragedy". Skeleton Tree was written before, and recorded after. Push The Sky Away has nothing to do with it at all
Quite right, was about to say the same. However, I'm fairly sure that at least some of the lyrics on Skeleton Tree must have been redrafted in light of what had happened... some lines simply fit too precisely with what had sadly taken place.
That's fair. I like it. Just a husband and wife in a natural situation. Husband is ready to go, wife still isn't dressed lol
Not really. Neither are terrible albums but I think I'm not alone in thinking thay are the 2 least good albums.
This is the first Cave album that’s grabbed my attention since Abbatoir Blues, with mixed results. Sometimes it’s crushing, other times I get bored with it. Is there any sort of arc or just does it go on and on with no start or finish? Cave has always been good when he’s emotionally direct, which he succeeds with on this album. I also see where the lyrics taken by themselves can seem pedestrian, especially when presented as high poetry. Not sure about this one. But at least I listened to it, which I can’t say for the last two.
I remember early on in my fandom with Cave, I had a hard time with what I'll call his "tenor years," where the low, resonant voice was more often replaced with a more high-pitched "head" voice. That change in vocal tone also marked a move from Cave's "story" songs to things much more personal in nature (even if the "person" having the personal experience wasn't strictly Cave himself). Over time, that period has grown in my estimation, but I can look back at my own reaction to that change in subject matter or, perhaps, focus and understand why some are reacting so strongly to the change over the last few albums. Here's the thing though: they're perfectly "right" to feel the way they do and I really don't get the vitriol meeting people who are saying "this doesn't speak to me" and giving reasons for it. That's fine. It's not for them and no amount of effort on their part or anyone else's will make it "speak to their condition." That said, the idea that there's too much "grief" on this album is a non-starter for me. Let's be real about this: musicians spend albums documenting their breakups and divorces. Compare that to outliving your kid and you'll see why I won't begrudge him taking as long as he needs to process what he's processing. Honestly, I can't figure out how he's got the discipline to still create in the face of what he's experienced, so I'm not surprised by those undertones. In fact, I'd be worried if he was going elsewhere for his inspiration. I'm reminded a little of the "all their stuff sucked after they got sober" tropes. The trick with this kind of attitude is that it's both right and wrong at the same time. As art goes, subjective response is the rule of the day. Everyone's entitled to think a writer, performer, or musician "sucks" after some line they've drawn in the sand. They may even have reason. Major life and habit changes mean thinking and behavior change as a result. The art that person is engaged with changes accordingly and HAS TO. Suggesting that the life change in a given musician is somehow a negative is where I tend to draw the line, but that's my boundary. This is rambling a bit, but I've yet to see someone actively cross the line in discussion save for in slamming down people for daring to speak negatively about this album. Some of those responses have really been rough to read and I'd like to suggest folks scale that back a bit. Someone disliking something you love doesn't invalidate the work or your love for it. Christ, at least most critical folks are giving reasons for their reaction - agree or disagree. Anyway, back to lurking in the thread. I'm waiting to get my hands on a hard copy of the thing before listening to it, so I'll be late to the party on the actual musical critique. Given some of the (even positive) reviews here though, I may prep myself by listening to Pink Floyd's The Final Cut and Roger Waters' Amused to Death a few dozen times each to get myself into a suitably dark headspace.
Nice post mate. I certainly have no beef with anyone disliking any album. I don't see a need to personally insult the artist in the process would be my only beef. One thing that is really interesting about this thread is the wide spaces between folks discovering Cave, or perhaps crossing the line to enjoying his work. There are folks that go back to the Birthday Party days, some with the last three albums, some at the the start of the Seeds, and many in the middle. I discovered the band funnily enough via Jimmy Barnes. Cold Chisel are one of my favourite ever bands, and like Cave they cover very broad musical ground, often within one album. One day Jimmy Barnes was being interviewed and to paraphrase/perhaps slightly misquote (it's been a while) he said the Ship Song was his favourite song. I had never heard it but had to investigate. So The Good Son was my introduction to Cave, and after attuning to its styling, I loved it. When I got Henry's Dream I was sold on the band, and as I randomly bought albums, eventually going all the way back to the Boys Next Door it was so interesting to experience the changes, not necessarily linear, that the band went through. Even more weirdly enough, I sort of stopped with the band around the time of Murder Ballads, and completely lost track of them until I heard a track from Skeleton Tree on youtube one day ... then I went about getting all the stuff I had missed in between. Always an interesting journey, but I am still not a big fan of Murder Ballads, even though it does have some good songs on it.
If you don’t like Ghosteen or any other of Nick’s recent albums — don’t listen to them. Pure and simple. It’s his music. He doesn’t serve it up like widgets to meet demand. I have friends who lament why he isn’t blasting out ear-grinding guitar based rock or wish he could get back to the albums from 20 or 30 years ago. He is changing and his music reflects that. I’m happy to be along for the ride and so are lots of other people.
