Night Garden: Berry, Buck, Mills, Stipe [R.E.M.]1981-1996 Song-by-song*

R.E.M. were one of the most bootlegged bands of the 80s and the rumor was always that Peter was the one who gave the tapes to the bootleggers.

 

They're three very distinct bands, of which R.E.M. is my clear favorite. They had the most truly great records. Disintegration is a masterpiece, but every other album I've heard from The Cure has been inconsistent with some great tracks.

I never got into The Smiths at all. I always filed them under my self-made pejorative term of "record store rock." Simple self-important rock you often hear playing on vinyl over the speakers at independent record stores. The artistic narcissism comes through the grooves. The kind of people that would be Jack Black's character in High Fidelity if they'd never made it in music.

 

Well this is not the place but I disagree on both counts!! I think most of the Cure’s 80s albums are fantastic and I can’t dismiss the Smiths so easily.
They were quite popular in the U.K., hardly arty outsiders; and quite influential on U.K. music that came later.

I do think that the Smiths are very, very English and their brand of irony doesn’t translate well to Americans. Americans always seem to complain about their mopiness whereas Europeans find them quite funny. I also don’t find their songs simple at all musically.

But even so they have some gorgeous melodies regardless.

But anyway I also like REM best of the three!

 

I agree with all of that. I've seen more recent interviews with Robert where he admits he was purposefully going too far/youthful shenanigans. Celebrity feuds are good free press, too...so...why not? And I know British tabloids love their band feuds (Brit pop battles, Liam vs Noel, etc) LOL But yes, I know lots and lots of Smiths fans, and the hooligans are always sweet and tender.

Yeah, now that Johnny is doing his solo deal, he's living up to his potential again. I like all of those albums for being what they are...well written, well played, well produced guitar pop. But almost everything in between was adequate at best...some nice moments on the first Electronic, some "oh that's Johnny!" with Billy Bragg...but Modest Mouse, the Cribs, even that 90s Boomslang...none of it memorable. He and Morrissey were good foils, couldn't have been done with anyone else, just like REM wouldn't have been the same if any one of the members was anyone else...four distinct players, one distinct sound.

Morrissey then and now...I just don't know. Maybe he always was that way and we thought it was tongue in cheek, or we were blinded by the hair...he's got a lot of self confidence, I know that much.

 

I'll agree the Cure can be a bit uneven on many albums. The brilliant, the great, the good, the filler (I'm looking at you, Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me). Though I do think the run of Seventeen Seconds, Faith, and Pornography are pretty much perfect. Oh, and the Carnage Visors soundtrack. LOVE it. I remember HATING Doubt on Faith because it disrupted the flow of the album, but now I've learned to accept and appreciate it. And Pornography can certainly be seen as monotonous and derivative (we get it, Robert, you're upset), but underneath all that tribal angst are some really nice songs with lovely melodies and lyrics full of imagery. As for The Big D...I love that album, but I'd be ok if I never heard it again...too many listens, too many broken hearts. LOL

 

I've also heard that about Stipe. I know a guy casually at a local indie record store who used to live in Athens and worked at a video store. He said one night they were closed and he'd locked the door. Someone started banging on the door, he looked up and it was Stipe. "We're closed..." the guy said, but Stipe went into this deal about how the manager said he could come by after hours (if we close the door...) to pick up some old VHS tapes for a project. "But we're closed..." and this went on through the door for a good minute or so before Stipe said, "But it's me..." And the guy told me he knew he didn't mean it's ME, the GREAT MICHAEL STIPE, but it's me...you know, Michael Stipe...and he thought "yeah, you're right..." and let him in. A weird story, but showed that Stipe is a genuine guy who is true to his art. He didn't send an assistant or a lackey or whatever down to the video store...he did it himself.

I once dated a girl who ONLY liked the Smiths' upbeat songs. Vicar in a Tutu was her hands down favorite. I still have a special place in my heart for that song because of that.

 

I want that to be true, so no one convince me otherwise.

 

Yes.

Put it on shuffle. That is the best way to listen to Sandinista.

 

That's why I said "I've heard" since I haven't heard every Cure album. Just the stuff from '85-92 really. Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me is a record a like a lot, but it's definitely inconsistent and ends really weakly on "Fight." I dig Wish too, several good tunes, but some filler as well. I don't dismiss The Smiths influence, because I think I've only heard a song or two. I've no good reason for not checking them out besides the fact that they seem like a group loved by snobs. I should probably give them a shot. I do enjoy English humor.

But yeah, this is the R.E.M. space!

 

Well, Wish is not eighties.
It suffers from 90s CD Bloat Syndrome for sure.
I will agree a couple of songs on side 4 of Kiss Me are weak…they have better B-sides.

 

I read it, and loved it... it was... "Very Morrissey®"!

One of the most embarrassing parts of my high school days was that my friends and I had this kind of rah rah thing about "American Music" and staying loyal to "our" bands... there was even that whole horribly named "Amerindie" thing going on. I know one of my friends pronounced one night that the only English band it was acceptable to listen to was ... the Sex Pistols ... and I'm ashamed to say I nodded in agreement. This is after a childhood of obsessing over the Beatles.

I'm also deeply embarrassed by this misbegotten former belief, but in our teens we considered the English bands like the Smiths and the Cure to be "for girls." (Bless me Father, for I have sinned...) Luckily it didn't take me long to see the error of my ways... (See below)

Besides his incredible lyrics, he [Morrissey] was also one of the great melodicists of the Twentieth Century, and a killer frontman.

I finally gave into the Smiths the night I was sleeping out for REM tickets on the Pageantry tour. One of the folks in the crowd camping out was playing The Queen is Dead on a boombox all night long, on endless repeat. And over time it sunk into me, against my wishes. The Smiths? Come on. But I had to face facts - it was everything I loved about music -- great lyrics and melodies, chiming guitars, and a rock solid rhythm section. Shortly after, I borrowed Louder than Bombs from a friend and was converted, hard.

 

"Fall On Me" is the first masterpiece R.E.M. song for me (first chronologically, as I started listening to them in 1991 and found my first masterpieces on OOT and AFTP then backtracked to the earlier albums). Although I love the many great songs on the first 3 albums there is generally something in each of them that I find falls short of songs like "Fall On Me" - sometimes they sound too murky, or Michael's vocal delivery is a bit restrained, or the tempo is too slow or too rocking - but here everything just gels. Highlights are Michael's vocals soaring at the end of the verses and in the chorus, the wonderful chorus melody, and the harmonies - maybe the best harmonies they have ever done.

5/5

 

Morrissey's lyrical pinches are one of the things I truly loved about him.

 

Fall On Me

I was a little suspicious of this song at first blush. The deliberate folky minor chords were sort of "normal", the impossibly catchy chorus and basic structure of the song seemed pedestrian for these mysterious masters of murk.

But what was really happening was that these guys were just getting really really good at crafting songs and this one is an undeniable masterwork of melody, harmony, structure, and execution. It may have sounded simple to my teen self but it's not. Even my adult self while playing along is tricked and charmed by it.

From the intro to the outro refrain there is nothing superfluous or indulgent in this song at all. Even though Michael's vocals are transcendent and so obviously a standout performance it's hard to pick an MVP on this track because everyone is perfect. Not just the vocals, I can get lost listening only to the bass or only the guitar or only the drums and percussion and then the organ comes in with perfect background textures. The production is BIG but it does not take away from the music in any way and only gives it gravity but not so much that it crushes, just enough to envelope.

I don't think I related the lyrics specifically to anything but I was aware of a vague activism vibe to the record and I didn't know if this song was personal or what but it did sound like a plea or prayer to whatever is out there for something. One silly thing my REM buddies and I would sing was what we took from the Hendrix joke "Scuze me while I kiss this guy" was, "buy this guy and sell this guy and lift your arms up to this guy, etc". Silly, and it still sometimes creeps into my head...

Lastly the little guitar intro is very clever and catchy and cool and it has to be an homage to/inspired by the intro to California Dreaming. Nicely done by the music historian Peter Buck!

If you ask this guy it's an easy 5/5

 

I once burned a version of Wish that took out all the loooooong drawwwwwn ouuuuuuut songs and replaced them with the (FANTASTIC) b-sides from those singles and it was a great pop listen. The Cure definitely had 80% great b-sides. I say had because I doubt we'll ever see another new album. I have to say, and feel free to disagree, but if the Cure and REM had to go toe to toe as far as b-sides go, the Cure might just take the prize.

 

I was in my mid 20s. I didn’t really listen to R.E.M. lyrics. I took their songs as a whole. It works well that way. Like tone poems. None of the pieces make sense but together the sum is greater than the parts!

 

I owned a record store in the '90s/'00s, and Peter would stop in and drop some serious coin whenever he was in town. In the very early days of CD-Rs, I knew a guy who was able to replicate them pretty quickly, so I compiled and made artwork for several homemade bootlegs, including a 2 CD comp of R.E.M.'s WB-era non-album tracks. Sure enough, Peter saw it, but not only was he cool with it, I think he bought a copy. If that's not class, I don't know what is.

The highlight of my music retail career was when a friend of mine was interviewing him at his hotel suite on the Upper West Side of NYC. He looked down and pointed and said, "Hey, that's my favorite record store in the city." And yes, he was pointing at my store. According to my friend, anyway.

It was almost worth all the stress, and all the money I lost, just to know that Peter Buck liked my store. Almost.

PJ

 

Fall On Me

This is probably the most out of time song here - this is the anthesis of 1986 in 3 minutes of pop perfection. It's like a lost 45 from 1967, it's all there - the jangly guitars, the slightly serious lyrics offset by the gorgeous melody, harmony vocals to die for, Mills part on the bridge... it's one of their songs I had misjudged, for a period I thought it was too well liked, but I think I finally got over that once I realized how immaculate the thing is. It's one of their signature songs, I think, definitely top 10 if I were to try to make a "most important" tracks by the band

It's a easy 5/5 when this album is just that good - 10 minutes of bliss right here

 

I recall being told The Smiths was like if REM and new wave bands in the UK were put together

Not quite, honestly the comparison that shouted out this to me was my first listen of Prefab Sprout's "Steve McQueen" - those first two songs are what I imagined what REM meets new wave sounded like. The Smiths are wonderful, though I never got the comparison either

 

Like it or not "Fall On Me" is the first real classic recorded by R.E.M. in the sense that it is a song just about everyone could relate to whatever their preferences (you didn't have to be a fan of the band). I'm no longer able to read ancient Rolling Stone reviews online any longer for free or I'd quote from the review which was appropriately glowing for the whole of the album. But this song was the game changer as far as I'm concerned even if it did not become the huge crossover hit that it deserved to be. Happens all the time of course.

 

I feel like you're making a fine distinction that has no real substance. I don't see there's any huge difference between Peter Buck saying he wanted any other album to be a double and Gehman's "the band wanted it to be a double" - are you supposing that Buck wasn't involved in that discussion with Gehman? Somebody in the band put that idea in his head, and there's only one member with form in this particular area.

My call of BS is that - as with all the other instances of "coulda / shoulda been a double" in the band's discography - there's nothing to support the idea. Hardly anything in the way of outtakes, no great lost songs from live performances of the time, and the demo session, where they're reaching way back in the songbook for material, doesn't add up to a double album. From all the evidence across their whole career, this is not a band where there's a secret stash of top quality material we haven't heard. If we're getting to the point where we're speculating "well, maybe they could have written another half-hour of material in the studio" then that's just more evidence for my point that there wasn't a double album there in the first place, in my opinion. R.E.M. weren't that band.

As to your second point: no, I am absolutely 100% certain that when Gehman, or Buck, or anybody else in R.E.M. was referring to a hypothetical double, they were not talking about a 54-minute album.

Anyway, that's where I stand. You can stand over there and we can think about direction, wonder why we haven't before.

 

I never expected earlier R.E.M. singles to break through. I loved them but I knew that the Def Leppard FM rock stations would play them at 3am (like MTV did).

But Fall On Me, I had high, high hopes. I love this tune. But it was not to be, really.

My band learned this song about a month ago. It’s hard! But I can tell by the look on everyone’s face that it’s worthwhile. So we do it again. And again. I never get tired of playing a good song over and over. To me, it’s just like playing 45s over when I was a kid!

 

In light of the discussion on like-minded 80's music and today's song of the day, Fall On Me, I point out that the site Slicing Up Eyeballs in 2017 did a survey ranking R.E.M.'s songs. Considering the site, I figured It's the End of the World... might have been #1 but, no, the winner: Fall On Me by a decent amount.

Who am I to argue with that. A resounding 5/5

For the full list from SUE:

The absolute best of R.E.M.: All 282 songs ranked by Slicing Up Eyeballs’ readers - slicing up eyeballs // 80s alternative music, college rock, indie

 

Part of the song's greatness is how it balances all those different ideas and interpretations. Hearing it for the first time in the mid-eighties, I thought, well, this is obviously about the arms race ("Buy the sky and sell the sky" / "What is it up in the air for? If it's there for long, it's over. . ."). Then I read that it was about acid rain, and I figured, fair enough. But the song resonates with me not because of those specific interpretations but because it's a ravishingly beautiful song about crippling anxiety, which works on a much broader and deeper level. 5/5!

 

I love the album too, even though there are a bunch of tracks I don't particularly want to hear again! I pared it down to a devastating single album (with a bonus 'Clash in Dub' EP) for casual listening, and that gave me things to hang onto when I listen to the whole shebang.