Nikon struggling, camera market is evaporating. Welcome to the smartphone photography era

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Dan C, Nov 13, 2019.

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  1. Dan C

    Dan C Forum Fotographer Thread Starter

    Location:
    The West
    It's been no secret that Nikon and to a lesser extent Canon have been watching their market evaporate before their eyes.

    Nikon's recent financial statement says their precision instrument division will overtake the camera division in profitability this year. At least there's one bright spot.

    Smartphones have obliterated the point & shoot and small camcorder market. Now it's eating into the entry level dSLR game.

    Also, Nikon and Canon have no one else to blame for missing the mirrorless camera trend trail-blazed by Sony and Fuji.

    Canon's new mirrorless system looks like a hit, so they might be able to adapt. There was a statement from them recently though that profitability on the cameras is slimmer than ever thanks to downward pricing pressure from other makers.

    Nikon's long-awaited mirrorless system, however, has been something of a flop.

    Here's another thing. Digital and smartphones have made "everyone a photographer" and pretty much destroyed the professional market. Struggling newspapers have cut photo staffs to the bone or to nothing, having reporters shoot mediocre pix with their smartphones instead. Part-time enthusiasts who charge hobby fees have wiped out professional portrait and wedding shooters. Free or penny stock websites have destroyed the stock photo market, killing what was a reliable income source for countless pros around the world.

    When I was growing up looking through LIFE and National Geographic magazines and dreaming of a job in photojournalism, Nikon was the symbol of that fantasy world of discovery and adventure. Nikon isn't at Kodak levels of despair just yet, but it looks like their days as the camera kings are over.

    Nikon Says Its Cameras Need to Justify Their Existence as a Business

    dan c
     
    enro99, Old Rusty, PATB and 6 others like this.
  2. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Nikon develop their own phone?
    Guess lens app.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2019
  3. jojopuppyfish

    jojopuppyfish Senior Member

    Location:
    Maryland
    None of this sounds new....except for mirrorless cameras.

    I think there will always be a professional market for cameras.
     
  4. wwaldmanfan

    wwaldmanfan Born In The 50's

    Location:
    NJ
    I made my living as a pro photographer for 25 years. The digital age wiped out my livelihood. I worked for Minolta camera company as a contractor for eight years. They were sued by Kodak for infringing on the patent for autofocus lenses, and, shortly thereafter, Minolta stopped making cameras entirely and focused their business on office photocopiers.

    Digital photography is a godsend for those pros that continue to work in the business. Instant results, no more waiting for the film to be developed. Yet, now everyone is a photographer. The ability to take selfies has spawned a generation of silly narcissists. Of course, it's stupid, but what can you do. Still, I made more money investing in Apple stock in the last few years that I would have made working, so I'm not complaining too much.
     
  5. Holerbot6000

    Holerbot6000 Forum Resident

    Location:
    California
    Getting a really good shot with a film camera was so much harder and as a result, more rewarding than digital, but there is something to be said for being able to take 500 shots of something and having lots of options to choose from. I've never been able to master the mechanics of smartphone photography though - it just feels unnatural to me. I just inherited my dad's old Canon Rebel - so old it has a viewfinder - picked up a couple of very inexpensive lenses and have been having a blast with it. I hope 'real' cameras never go away completely.

    What's the buzz about mirrorless cameras? There is no mirror to reflect the image so it goes straight onto the sensor?

    [​IMG]
     
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  6. JakeKlas

    JakeKlas Impatiently waiting for an 8-track revival

    Location:
    United States
    I’m assuming you’re meaning a flop sales-wise? Because the Z-series has been getting rave reviews in the photo magazines I read. It is pricey, though, so it’s not an entry level camera to tempt phone users. The pros that I read about say they’re pretty invested in their current camera and gear. Because they know it so well, they’re hesitant to make a move to a new camera and lenses specifically designed for those cameras.

    I’m a very casual photographer, but I moved away from phone cameras and bought a Nikon D3500 last Christmas. While I appreciate the convenience of a phone camera, I’m rarely happy with the results, especially if the lighting is even slightly less than ideal.

    But, yeah, it doesn’t surprise me at all to hear that camera makers aren’t generally jumping for joy right now.
     
  7. daglesj

    daglesj Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norfolk, UK
    Not that worried. I'll pick up a couple of used high end full frame Canon's with low miles and they will see me out.

    I just picked up a mint Tamron 70-200mm F2.8 DI VC USD lens for £360 last week! Awesome lens slapped on my 6D. No flash required even at night!
     
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  8. Vinyl is final

    Vinyl is final Not Insane - I have a sense of humor

    Location:
    South central, KY
    I saw an article about smart phones about two years ago that showed a cover of a radio shack sale catalog from the early 70's. On the cover were 18 items featured in the catalog. Every single one of them did something we now use smart phones for.

    I have a Panasonic 4/3 camera with a bunch of adapters and lenses. I'm going to be selling it before the Christmas season. I have not used it in 2 years. The only thing it does that I'll miss is give me pretty good telephoto shots. But I rarely do that and, frankly, in the spirit of "the best camera to use is the one you have on you", the camera is worthless because I always have my smart phone on me and I NEVER have my Panasonic on me.

    I look at those really expensive cameras when I'm at costco and wonder who the heck is buying them.
     
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  9. daglesj

    daglesj Forum Resident

    Location:
    Norfolk, UK
    I have no idea either but I love the fact they still do and then I buy them off them for 25% of the price a few years later.

    Now for my next lens....the 35mm F2.0 IS or maybe the older 85mm F1.8 hmmmm
     
  10. zombiemodernist

    zombiemodernist Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeastern USA
    IIRC Nikon is one of the only Japanese optical companies that's not sufficiently diversified beyond consumer camera market, they put all their eggs in that basket, and on top of that they clung to the DSLR market for way too long. Most other young people I know in the hobby have all switched to mirrorless where Nikon isn't even a player, including some people who were Nikon die-hards. Some kept their Nikon gear for the superior image quality for studio work, but no one really wants to carry it around anymore. And most casual people will be more than satisfied with the results out of the 2019 iPhones.

    Personally I'm using an OMD from Olympus, which is several years old at this point, mostly because it's compact and with the right glass it can get far better image quality than a phone. Of course there's no competition between a m43 sensor and a full frame camera, bu way would I go back to lugging around a DSLR.
     
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  11. 360-12

    360-12 Forum Resident

    Nikon actually represents 98 companies, well beyond photographic equipment.

    Nikon | Company Profile | Nikon Group Companies

    IMO, just because everyone with a cell phone can take snapshots does not mean "everybody is a photographer". Even the newest iPhone cannot compete with a Nikon DSLR for quality. The "wide-angle" "lenses" on iPhones are a joke.
     
    SandAndGlass and chili555 like this.
  12. unclefred

    unclefred Coastie with the Moastie

    Location:
    Oregon Coast
  13. Dan C

    Dan C Forum Fotographer Thread Starter

    Location:
    The West
    Sales wise, yes, at least according to the article I posted. The new system isn't selling like they'd projected or hoped. Maybe "flop" is too strong a word, but it's not helping their camera division yet.

    dan c
     
    JakeKlas likes this.
  14. neo123

    neo123 Senior Member

    Location:
    Northern Kentucky
    I had to take a double look at the thread title. I initially read it a s "Nixon struggling, ....".


    Anyway, the film camera businesses are all suffering. Hell, good luck for the average person who still uses one to find a place that still develops film. All the places that used to develop film now send out to 3rd parties to develop and most don't return your original negatives (just scans in digital form on a CD.) And the one-hour photo places no long exist (at least none by me.)
     
  15. Dan C

    Dan C Forum Fotographer Thread Starter

    Location:
    The West
    Well, "everybody's a photography" doesn't mean anyone can take a good photo with a smartphone. It just means the odds are better for a usable photo. Good or great photographers can make very compelling pictures with a modern smartphone because they know how to frame, find a moment, understand the strengths and limitations of the camera, etc.

    I've got a Canon DSLR system I use professionally, and 5 years ago I updated my point & shoot snapshot camera with a Canon G7X. Terrific little camera. But honestly the camera I use the most hands down is the one in my iPhone.

    dan c
     
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  16. bamaaudio

    bamaaudio Forum Resident

    Location:
    US
    Never did own a 'fancy' camera and just had cheap point and clicks. The dslr images looked considerably better and those cams from a decade or so ago may even still hold up pretty well today. More modern ones are probably really nice and from what I can tell it looks like a lot of Youtubers are using them for their videos as well. They're probably decent enough for indie filmmaking as well. But cell phones offer a pretty solid and convenient performance for the average person. As much as I've always wanted to try out a nice dedicated camera, I just don't want to carry one around.
     
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  17. Veni Vidi Vici

    Veni Vidi Vici Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    "Countless" pros? That was never the case. In fact it's nowadays there is a truly global marketplace for stock imagery, with hundreds of millions of images just a click away, and sophisticated AI systems for helping customers find the exact photo for the occasion. Of course, the vastly increased supply has led to lower prices, as it has in many industries with the rise of internet commerce, and the cheapening and simplification of production. But celebrity and other newsworthy photography is still a specialized and lucrative niche.
     
  18. Vinyl is final

    Vinyl is final Not Insane - I have a sense of humor

    Location:
    South central, KY
    The internet is destroying a lot of pro-fessions. I actually was able to better diagnose toe pain than my doctor was, thanks to the internet. And this was almost ten years ago.

    It's better now.
     
    enro99, timind and Veni Vidi Vici like this.
  19. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Paparazzi still make $$$.
     
  20. Solaris

    Solaris a bullet in flight

    Location:
    New Orleans, LA
    I see a lot of young, talented photographers here in New Orleans who also shoot film regularly and clearly know their stuff, and it's interesting to see a whole generation of people picking up film again. I've been doing this full time for 8 years (I went pro when I was 42 -- an insane thing to do in retrospect, but my job before this was literally killing me) and I've seen the market shift and watched the cell phone camera game change dramatically. When I see what people post on Instagram that they shoot with just their phones, I wonder how much longer some working photographers are going to last. I'm still a pretty mediocre cell phone photographer myself.

    What's saved me professionally is that I know how to use studio lighting creatively, so I can do product shoots that a lot of other people can't touch simply because they lack the technical knowledge. Still, you have to be adaptable, whether you're a photographer or a camera manufacturer. Things are progressing very quickly now.
     
  21. Veni Vidi Vici

    Veni Vidi Vici Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    I have to say, with respect to the stock image market, it's going to get a lot worse. The next step, being worked on now, is to use AI to create the "photographs" within the machine. No need for competent photographers or models or worries about copyright or trademark violations (all of which and more are reasons why image submissions can be rejected, or have to be paid for).
     
  22. Vinyl is final

    Vinyl is final Not Insane - I have a sense of humor

    Location:
    South central, KY
    The pictures are a result of what they are willing to do to get them. That's what they are actually getting paid for. :)
     
    showtaper likes this.
  23. Yes, but here is where the real issue lies.
    From 1995 and older, a good camera was pretty easy to justify because others were inferior by a pretty large margin. Think instamatic 110's and just about any pocket camera.
    In today's photo market the shot is the measure, meaning just about any cell phone will be "good enough" for the vast majority of shots desired.

    Could you take a better photo than that quick shot from the cell phone? Certainly, but to do so you had to be prepared, armed and ready with the better equipment, whereas the cell phone gets pulled out in an instant and "click" I got the shot...and it is good enough.

    The cell phone cameras are not as good as a full frame professional camera, but they are not terrible like most old "portable" cameras of years gone by.
    The cell phone takes a sufficiently worthy photo and the masses have become acounstomed to that being good enough for most instances.

    The price of a better camera, as well as the accessories, is hard to justify too.
    My camera is nothing special, although it is a nice, older, DSLR and if I want to purchase a new lens the prices start around $1,200 and go up from there...for just a lens.
    That is a hard pill to swallow for the vast majority of spur of the moment photo bugs.
     
  24. GregM

    GregM The expanding man

    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
  25. Veni Vidi Vici

    Veni Vidi Vici Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Another aspect to this is the ubiquity of image-editing software, previously requiring expensive computers and software, which can fix or enhance otherwise flawed or mediocre images.
     
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