Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by thnkgreen, May 22, 2020.
This is a discussion for serious music fans. Go back to TikTok.
People make way too big of a deal about that Stipe collaboration. Michael was in the middle of a REM album himself, and he calling Kurt was basically a "musical intervention" - to try and get him to do something, try and shake off his depression and addiction to drugs. He said it.
Stipe did a lot of duets, with various people, and it's very unlikely he would have made a full album with Kurt. Maybe one song, maybe two, maybe nothing. But Michael wouldn't have put REM on hold!
The thing is : what was next, if there was something else, will always remain a mystery, really. It's really frustrating. Kurt had few songs left in the can, and his songwriting rate had slowed down rather drastically in 92 and 93 already. He wanted to take a new musical direction - but was he able to? Did he have the chops, and the will? While very good, "You Know You're Right" and "Do Re Mi" don't exactly show a "brand new direction" (even if "Do Re Mi" would be the closest to that). He threw some ideas in interviews (playing acoustic) but I don't think it's enough to guess what he would gave done, sadly.
Although undated, many fans seem to think that most songs on Montage of Heck were not new. They were mostly older (1988) ideas that were never used. And even the tracks that sound closer in time (probably from between 92 to 94) don't bring anything new to the table. This track is basically Kurt playing that formula he was trying to shake off.
In the early 90s, that tension was discussed (almost ad nauseum) in almost every press article I ever read about the band post "Incesticide." It was THE major topic besides new music and the Kurt-Courtney relationship mirroring Sid & Nancy.
It was going to require sobriety. That's obvious.
Yeah. Rest, even though he'd already had a lot of rest in 92-93, with a touring schedule that only came back in late 93 into 94, with that arena tour for In Utero, US leg, then European leg (cut short). 92 and 93 had been slow years in terms of touring.Rest, sobriety, maybe no music for a while, to try and get the creative juices flowing, so to speak. But it will always be a question mark for me - was he done, or would have he been able to come back, do more of the same or do something else?
2:44 : Krist and Dave didn't really seem to know either in February 94, and breaking up was an option too...Many people have alluded to it.
I always wondered if his songwriting dried up because of the drugs or because he had gotten tired of who he was working with & the sound they had together. We’ll never know what he could’ve done with different people to collaborate with. I would’ve loved to hear an album of him and Courtney together.
I wonder if it's a combination, really. Between lifestyle and drugs/depression and so forth, frustration with the band, combined. Also, you can only write what you can play right? Did he get burned out after a while?
Kurt and Courtney left a couple of collaborative scraps of songs but nothing fleshed out. This is just them in the living room.
There's an interview where he mentions The Beatles and how they evolved as a band. I believe he referenced Sgt Pepper (Looking for the clip).
Yeah, I know which one it is. "They went from "I Want to Hold Your Hand" to "Sgt Pepper", that's a big progression", something like that.Somewhere in there. If I find the exact timing, i'll edit this message. He's really high here - even nodding out at some point.
That said, as opposed to popular belief, he wasn't that big of a Beatles scholar. He sure liked them a lot, but he was nowhere near as obsessive as most people on this forum
Reading his journals, you mostly read early "moptop" US albums listed (that he got in his younger years), and nothing from later on. Even though he did use "Being from the Benefit of Mr Kite!" on one of his sound collages.
Kurt had a tendency to mock Paul a bit, and Courtney would defend him "but he did "Helter Skelter!". He said his opinion was a bit harsh though because Paul was "probably responsible" for a lot of things he liked in the Beatles (you bet, Kurt! That's an understatement. lol).
He was flattered though when Linda McCartney showed interest in photographing Nirvana. Too bad it never materialized!
There wasn't going to be a next album.
When I think "next album", I also consider "maybe solo", you know. Not necessarily Nirvana. Maybe even two or three years later on an indie label.
But even that raises a lot of questions. Maybe he would have just painted and live off his royalties. He had enough money to do that and not anything else!
I'm as tempted as anyone to imagine my adulthood with Cobain around, and he very well may have been musically productive in surprising ways (e.g. Stipe/going solo/alt-Americana/etc.).
But given what we know about his attitude toward fame -- and, of course, the decisions he ultimately made as a result and response to that fame -- I have a hard time believing he would want anything to do with the hyper-mediated America that was just around the corner at the time he died. If he had a problem with celebrity in say 1991 or 1992...how is he going to handle a late 20th/early 21st century blog-o-world of reality TV, infortainment, conglomeratized/McDonaldized radio, Perez Hilton/TMZ e-paparazzi culture, the birth of Facebook-Twitter-Instagram, ad infinitum?
I really believe he would have no way to deal with any of that, leave the public eye, and start painting in the woods or something.
I always think he would have gotten less and less popular anyway, gradually. In Utero did rather well but wasn't exactly HUGE, and most shows on the tour were well attended but not sold out. It's a fact that even the band mentioned in an interview in December 93. His death sort of made Kurt bigger than he actually was in 93-94 (of course, he WAS big, but not gigantenormous big, other bands were outselling him when not just catching up with him).
I remember hearing there was supposed to be an EP for Lollapalooza 94 tour.
That's right, and it makes you wonder if "You Know You're Right" could have been on that. The problem with this EP, is that apparently Nirvana pulled off Lolla even before Kurt died anyway, and the other issue is what material they would/could have used for that EP, knowing they still a lot of touring coming up in the year...
Here's a post about it, and I highly recommend Nick's blog for all the "what ifs?". He's very good.
Nirvana: Lollapalooza Tour EP 1994
Yeah I know Kurt has listed Meet The Beatles and Something New some of his favorite records before. I found this article from 2012, which the guitarist from the band Hole says Kurt was working on his 'White Album". I believe the song being alluded to was Kurt's cover of The Beatles And I Love Her. Here's the article
Kurt Cobain was recording solo ‘White Album’ before suicide
Yeah. The thing is that type of article perpetuates a bit of a myth, really. Kurt having recorded a quick home demo/cover of "And I Love Her" (not sure of the date, but could be in 93) doesn't mean he had a White Album in the can, really, and there is not much to substantiate that in what is known of his recordings, tapes etc. I wish! When you see what was used on "Montage of Heck", although interesting to the die-hard fan, it feels like scraping the bottom of the barrel. If there was anything like that in the vault, it's safe to assume it would have been released by now (why nothing on the box set, for instance). They went through his recordings for both the box set and "Montage of Heck".
Unless we want to hear something like this on a new official album. Nirvana going stoned Emerson, Lake and Palmer
(Still unsure who played what on this jam, but it's part of the In Utero multitracks. It's real).
I don't know where he was headed musically, but I would have liked to have found out.
My wishes for him were that he:
A. never took up with Courtney
B. had seen a good psychiatrist who could have treated the depression
C. cleaned up
He had too much working against him though, like his peer Elliott Smith. Broken geniuses.
It would have been cool to see what those two cats could have come up with if they'd collaborated.
Oh I know he didn't record any White Album but do picture him going in that kind of direction solo. I think him and Dave would have bumped heads too much if Nirvana continued. Grohl seemed like he wanted to become more of a partner with Kurt ala Lennon/McCartney and I also feel like Dave was more down to play ball with record companies and the industry in general
Gonson says, “I was far closer to Elliott than I ever was to Kurt. I feel a lot of sadness about both of them. I feel they were both remarkably gifted. I think they had celiac disease. That’s my theory. They were both in pain a lot. … There were a lot of similarities. … They were both haunted. So bad that they couldn’t live with it. Lots of people have demons. Their demons were pretty bad demons.”
‘They Were Both Lonely’—JJ Gonson’s Photos Of Kurt Cobain, Elliott Smith And The Birth of Grunge – WONDERLAND
yeah Grohl is no rebel.
Cobain is to Lennon as Grohl is to McCartney.
Yeah, Dave already had his stuff. This cassette came out as a low-key mail order thing while he was in Nirvana and was never openly mentioned in a Nirvana interview at the time...
And I honestly think it's one of the best things he's written! (recorded just prior to the release of "Nevermind", released later in 92).
Apparently Kurt liked a couple of Dave's song ideas..."Exhausted" and another one ("Alone + Easy Target" I think. It's all off the top of my head) for which he would have changed the lyrics, apparently.
I love Elliott. This is the closest he ever got to Nirvana, in terms of style/dynamics, IMO.
But he didn't like these Heatmiser records too much!
I thought some of you might get a kick out of this. I attended high school in the early 1990's. For some reason (odd how the mind works) I remembered there was a blurb in my sophomore yearbook about Nirvana, so I decided to look for it. Also, tucked in the front of the yearbook (for some reason) was the last Peanuts comic strip published in our local newspaper.
Pretty cool! When and where was that? North Carolina in 93-94?
Separate names with a comma.