If I posted a couple of 320kbps MP3 files, about 10MB each, would anyone be willing to download and give me an opinion on whether they sound like they are no-noised or not? I'll upload them to my web server here at home and give the link when I get downstairs later this evening. I just got the Japanese copy of Brasil '66's Fool On The Hill today, reissued back in August of last year. I already owned the Rebound version, which had enough noise reduction to choke the life right out of it. If I'm hearing it right, the new CD may have it also (along with some brick-wall limiting every now and then). TIA,
A day late, but at least I'm awake now to attempt this. Album: Fool On The Hill, Sergio Mendes & Brasil '66 Song: Festa Label: Rebound (released early 90's) http://home.Troll.net:19080/download/B66_Festa_Rebound.mp3 Album: Fool On The Hill, Sergio Mendes & Brasil '66 Song: Festa Label: A&M Japan (released August 2002) http://home.Troll.net:19080/download/B66_Festa_Japan.mp3 These may be a bit slow on the download--I have them on my server with a Comcrap cable connection. Have been trying to find the original mid 80's CD to compare, but only one person I know has it...and it's in storage. The byte sizes are almost identical on these...almost makes me wonder if Japan used the sh*tty Rebound version.
Alright, here's what I heard... They are different. The Japan A&M is louder and has some high and low extension eq on it. They have both been no noised, if what I'm hearing isn't an MP3 artifact. No noise and MP3 has a similar chirping artifact. I adjusted the volume of the A&M so it matched the Rebound and listened to each section, one by one. They were both very similar sounding but I hear something closing down the Rebound a little more. Also, I heard more chirping during the fourth section (I call it the Guaraldi section) on the Rebound release. Listen to the fade out of each, the new A&M version has a LOT of NR added to the very end, the Rebound does not have any added NR there.
First of all, it is odd that they would treat this recording with no-noise and EQ...the following album, Crystal Illusions is a bit dull on the top, weak on the bottom and has intrusive tape hiss...in other words, it seems to be a straight transfer from what I can tell. On vinyl, both of these albums have very similar sonic qualities...that typical 1968/69 A&M sound. I listened a little louder in the car, albeit over a shabby Delco in-dash played thru a cassette adapter. I did still here some artifacts. To me, it seems that the hiss level increases as Lani is singing during the quiet sections, giving it a slight rough, ragged sound. Also, as the first fast section slows down, I still get that "closing in" feeling before Sergio's piano comes in. To me, also, the Rebound seems to be more heavy-handed with the noise reduction. It does not seem as distracting on the A&M/Japan. I haven't decided if the new one is the lesser of two evils or not. I looked at one of the waveforms and there are some squared-off waves in there, so there is at least a little compression going on. I could have posted the straight WAV files, but didn't know how long it would take to download over my Comcrap connection. Thanks for letting me borrow your ears.
Jamie: do you also hear any of that dreaded HAECO-CSG processing on this one? Might explain why the bass was a little diffuse...the year it was recorded was about when A&M was using the process.
I didn't really hear a steady center image. Is that the HAECO-CSG processing? BTW, I liked the A&M version better (even after the volume adjustment) although they were similar.
That's it. Everything in the middle is 1/2 out of phase so it sounds equally bad when you play it in stereo or mono.
In 1968 when they stopped making mono albums, the record companies thought that people with mono systems needed to play stereo "compatible" with mono albums to avoid that 3 db drop when a stereo recording is collapsed to mono. Some engineer dude invented this Compatible Stereo Generator machine and when you mixed through it, the signal came out the other end "compatible" with mono. In other words, the music levels of the side instruments sounded no different when collapsed to L+R. The problem is, for STEREO listeners it sounded like crap, with no clearly defined center image. Many records were mixed like that: Rascals "It's A Beautiful Morning", Cream "White Room", etc.
So, these songs would sound correct if we listeners collapsed them to mono on our equipment, or is there a better stereo mix of them? Is there a reference for songs that were mixed this way? At least one of these songs are not available in a mono single mix that I know of.
Two questions: 1. When was this processing applied? Would, say, a multi-track have been mixed down to two-track with the CSG being applied in the chain, or was a separate CSG master made after the original two-track? 2. Would there theoretically be a way to undo the process by applying the same phase shift in reverse? A lost cause I know, but I had to ask.
These songs only sound correct if you stand away from the speakers or just ignore the phase problems. These songs were never mixed to mono at all (because they were "compatible") I don't have a list of them but there were a bunch.
The processing was applied in between the Multi and the mix deck (****!) No way to undo the process except by remixing. All of the Atlantic stuff is gone so this is it!
Figures that many of A&M's big late 60's albums had the processing. BJ Thomas, "Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head" is one of the most famous...and IMHO, one where the CSG processing sticks out like a sore thumb. I should round up the troops and assemble a list of known CSG titles. Then again, why should I want to get myself all depressed.
A book is a good idea! It would be a must-read manual for anyone mastering, especially the young 'uns coming up! I'm serious as can be!
CSG recordings Without checking the LPs at home, I know that the following A&M's are CSG'd: albums THE BRASS ARE COMIN' - Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass FOOL ON THE HILL - Sergio Mendes & Brasil '66 BUTCH CASSIDY & THE SUNDANCE KID SOUNDTRACK - Burt Bacharach GREATEST HITS - Sergio Mendes & Brasil '66 GREATEST HITS - Sandpipers GREATEST HITS - Baja Marimba Band singles: Santa Claus Is Comin' To Town - Carpenters Song Of Joy - Miguel Rios (suspect - not labeled as such) Please Mr. Postman - Carpenters There've got to be many others - add to the list.
