No response from mastering people/engineer

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Hubert jan, Feb 9, 2018.

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  1. Myke

    Myke Trying Not To Spook The Horse

    Amen. I've seen people try to argue with Thomas (@Plan9 ), who is a mastering engineer, and I just shake my head. Super nice guy too, who has far more patience than I ever will.
     
    FVDnz, andrewskyDE, Metalrob and 4 others like this.
  2. Colin H

    Colin H Forum Resident

    Very good! :winkgrin:
     
  3. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    I remember when the boss and I first started working with Ray Charles. Ray thought we were trying to pull a fast one (just a misunderstanding, soon corrected) and he called us down to his studio so he could yell at us in person. So, like dorks, we went. There was Ray Charles giving us a tongue lashing and there we were, taking it. Soon Ray got a bit disoriented and was yelling at the wall while we were to his left. Marshall and I looked at each other, shrugged, and then moved over to be right in front of him again. Both of us were thinking "wow, we are being yelled at by RAY CHARLES!"

    Funny but true.

    But no one wants to come here to be yelled at about their work. We ain't Ray Charles.
     
  4. Scottb

    Scottb Senior Member

    Location:
    Nanuet, NY, USA
    I agree and also many mastering engineers get the heat about how loud and compressed something is when in fact it's the client who insists the CD to be louder. I know this as I'm friends with a few top mastering engineers and it gets them really frustrated when they remaster something with great dynamics and then only to be told by the artist to make it much louder. The artist pays the bill so at the end of the day unfortunately they are in control. The audiophile labels like MoFi and AF are a different animal as they cater to a very specific audience and they don't have to report back to the artist.
     
    FVDnz, Hubert jan, ytserush and 4 others like this.
  5. Yankeefan01

    Yankeefan01 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tonawanda, NY, USA
    That's a great story!
     
  6. Mr Bass

    Mr Bass Chevelle Ma Belle

    Location:
    Mid Atlantic
    Yes the finished product is not under the control of the mastering engineer. They receive what they are given, do their thing while being directed by others and hand it back for anything else that the client wants to do with it. Collaborative art is an exercise in frustration for anyone trying to do it right. It largely depends on the money source having good taste and judgment. Only sculptors, painters and writers have complete control other than the composer who is able to play the music all by him or herself.
     
  7. delmonaco

    delmonaco Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sofia, Bulgaria
    I think that we can have completely honest contribution and opinion only by retired mastering engineers, and mainly about old projects, concerning long gone acts that are not supported by any major label or influential estate...on the other hand, I think that the audio professionals have to be more active and less feeble to critics in forums like this one, because this is the place where are concentrated the people that really care about their work. The average listener doesn't care who mastered what, so in longer terms the fact that the professionals ignores communication with knowledgeable and critical fans undermine their position and makes them more easily replaceable by the labels. Even if the audiophile community is not huge, it it still something to be considered, especially when it comes to sales of physical audio products.
     
  8. Rockinrob

    Rockinrob Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Compression in tracking, mixing and mastering, sound replacement and other audio tricks, and I guess just generally how different recording typically goes vs what is expected. Granted, these are more for the processed rock recordings rather than something like audiophile jazz, but still.

    I’m not sure if a lot of the people that get upset about dr values realize how arrangements can impact dynamics, or how common compression is used in tracking - or how even a distorted guitar shows limited dynamics to a meter. A distorted guitar amp is clipping the signal, it’s basically a limiter at that point!

    Another thing is cabling. Studios can often have long runs of cabling, and patch bays add even more cabling, not to mention the cables in a typical guitar rig. It’s always funny to me with the guys that get really into cables on the other side, but I guess their goal is preserving whats there, so they get the fancy cables. But it would seem like the actual guitar to amp or mic
    to preamp cable should be even more important

    There are also all the technical things like the high pass and low pass filters on cutting heads for vinyl. Audiophiles will discuss how vinyl sounds better because of the “unlimited high end” but actually there are low pass filters...

    Many records are mixed on speakers and set ups that wouldn’t be considered more than midfi by many audiophiles, and many musicians don’t even have stereos these days! Mixing engineers often check how mixes sound on iphones and earbuds, which is not to say they mix FOR earbuds, but tweaks are definitely made to improve how things sound on earbuds, especially for pop music
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
    longaway, Vaughan, Metalrob and 7 others like this.
  9. JoeRockhead

    JoeRockhead Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    ya don't say?
     
  10. Mark H

    Mark H Senior Member

    Location:
    upstate N.Y.
    I felt bad for Ron Furmanek, [hope I spelled it right], he seemed like a a cool guy, told some great stories. Got bullied, and harassed, and said so long.
    This place is a great resource, if you know who's opinions to trust. I could single out a few of my must read posters, but as always, it's just my opinion, so different strokes, I guess.
     
    violetvinyl likes this.
  11. Gaslight

    Gaslight ⎧⚍⎫⚑

    Location:
    Northeast USA
    Had to think about that one for a moment, and would tend to agree with you (I am not a mastering engineer or part of the music industry btw).

    I consider this place to be a music forum that slants towards the classic rock genre and audiophilia in general. So I'm not sure what would be gained to interact here if I mastered non-audiophile recordings, for example. Or EDM / hip-hop, for that matter.
     
  12. ibanez_ax

    ibanez_ax Forum Resident

    There was a thread about Peter Mew when he retired. Man, it got ugly.
     
    andrewskyDE and Dudley Morris like this.
  13. Erik Tracy

    Erik Tracy Meet me at the Green Dragon for an ale

    Location:
    San Diego, CA, USA
    It isn't just mastering engineers or this forum.

    It happens across social media where everyone is an expert.

    I've seen this in martial arts forums where senior practitioners are denigrated, told they don't know anything, are charlatans, etc, et al.

    Then those with time in the art with valuable insights are chased off and their voices go silent - cuz everyone is an expert.
     
  14. rednoise

    rednoise Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston
    You sound like you're poised to jump down the throat of someone whose work you don't approve. Seems to me that's why engineers don't often come here. I expect many of them wouldn't mind having a rational discussion of the work, but probably not with someone who comes into it with a big chip on their shoulder. Who needs that kind of aggravation?
     
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  15. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Ya think?
     
    punkmusick and ytserush like this.
  16. mdent

    mdent Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    Unfortunately, too many are becoming plugins.
     
  17. Joti Cover

    Joti Cover Forum Resident

    I love this story...thank you.
     
    fluffskul and Steve Hoffman like this.
  18. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    I believe an answer is quite overdue!! How dare they not answer you?? To the bin I say, to the bin!!!
     
  19. Benn Kempster

    Benn Kempster Who else?

    Location:
    Tring, UK
    Part of me blames it all on the ability to create accounts on forums under assumed names - hiding behind a keyboard seems to give people carte blanche to be as unpleasant as possible, safe in the knowledge that they aren't going to have to look someone in the eye.
     
  20. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Location:
    Frankfurt, Germany
    I am not doubting that there was harassment as well. But what I've seen, they were often confronted with unprofessional and unfounded criticism of their work. They were not used and not willing to deal with that. The only scenario how this could have worked out would be to give the mastering engineers administration rights and accept their decisions to "gort" unwanted posts.
     
  21. Hubert jan

    Hubert jan Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Waste of time ? If I had recorded or mastered or remastered a CD or record I think I would be proud to answer questions.
    If I made a mess of it indeed I dont show up.
     
  22. Hubert jan

    Hubert jan Forum Resident Thread Starter

    No, take it easy. I am just a curious music lover, always read the liner notes and if there the technical info.
    This forum is not interesting for the casual buyer/listener, most dont even know what mastering, reverb, compression is.
    This forum I guess is found and used by serious people, if there are morons that dont behave let them boil in their own fat or ignore them.
    Enough room left for real questions, remarks, answers.
     
  23. Hubert jan

    Hubert jan Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I did bin the Merrill E Moore CD.
    Enjoy the 45's and Bulldog now. No problem.
    By the way I like your sense of humor.
     
  24. andrewskyDE

    andrewskyDE Island Owner

    Location:
    Europe
    I heard/read a while ago that even George Martin wrote one comment here somewhere. Myth or truth?
     
  25. andrewskyDE

    andrewskyDE Island Owner

    Location:
    Europe
    That would be nice!
     
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