No Time to Die (2021 James Bond film). May include spoilers!*

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by shokhead, Nov 27, 2017.

  1. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Luray, Virginia
    Nomi dying would have frankly been a cop out. Plain and simple. Plus the first black female MI6 agent being almost immediately killed off? I know they probably aren't going to use the character again...but still...yes it would have been bad optics.

    Imagine, say Avengers Endgame ending with Tony Stark about to sacrifice himself to save the world...only for a character who was just introduced an hour or so earlier in the film to step in and die in his place just so we the audience didn't have to watch one of our heroes die. Or Spock about to step into the radiation chamber in Star Trek 2, then Lt. Savik pushing him to the side to die instead. Would the end of those films have any real impact? It would have been ludicrous and hollow. As it would have been here.

    And I know you were being tougne in cheek (I hope) ...but how would having any of the female characters dying improved this film? Just so we, all grown men (I think), didn't have to go through watching Bond die?
  2. shug4476

    shug4476 Nullius In Verba

    Well aren't you a jolly fellow!
  3. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Sixties Bond Films / Props?
    To busy admiring the booty. Lol :D
  4. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Luray, Virginia
    Ah come on now I'm sure our friend has a very cogent argument and I'm sure any time now he will enlighten us with his evidence that the feminists have taken over Bond and we will be so shocked and gobsmacked that we will have no choice but to agree and immediately start hating the movie.

    Oh! Look he just posted let me see what he has to say....
    I am. I just have an aversion to bullspit.
    Oatsdad likes this.
  5. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Lou Reed had a song about an ostrich, perhaps suitable to one’s reaction to seeing No Time To Die.. hey take this forward and stand on you Head the ostrich ... lol :D
  6. I enjoyed the movie was frankly rarher surprised at the ending but this was kind of ‘Avengers: Endgame” of the Bond franchise. It does allow them to reboot what if
    Bond just could undergo plastic surgery and-bang!-new Bond or if they go in a different directi0n (which they use the female 007) [SPOILER/}
  7. Exactly. Some past references aside (if that), there isn’t any except for Bond visiting his wife’s grave with Moore in one of them.
  8. I agree. It could be trimmed to 2:20 easily. It does take a while to start moving forward. I see the parallel between On Her Majesty’s Secret Service and, in fact, I kind of saw this as a sort of remake with a better outcome.
    Vidiot likes this.
  9. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Luray, Virginia
    There are quite a few parallels with the original YOLT novel regarding the who knows?
  10. seventeen

    seventeen Forum Resident

    Paris, France
    I noticed a few scenes badly trimmed already so I'm not sure. In the pre-credits, after the explosion, I think the scene showed Bond being deaf. Look at how he doesn't realise on the bridge a car is pulling up being him and he is being shot at, until the bullets hits the pavement around him. The moment he phoned Madeleine also was probably meant to show him not hearing her back, but they botched it dubbing sounds over it. I suspect some other wild, artistic touches, were toned down in the editing.

    On another note, if you have the courage to rewatch SPECTRE, Madeleine tells the pre-credits story of the film verbatim at around 90mn to 007. They just took that dialogue and made it the pre-credits.
    David Campbell likes this.
  11. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Alexandria VA
    How can
    Bond undergo plastic surgery when he's dead? :help:
    JediJones and cartoonist like this.
  12. Well WE think he’s dead but nothing is ever confirmed. Again, it’s film and in a film nothing is permanent. We see the explosion, etc. and we know he was infected with that virus but we DOJ;t get confirmation of his body being found. I didn’t say that I didn’t think he wasn’t dead just that we are looking at a popular franchise that they will try and alive somehow.
  13. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Alexandria VA
    Until now, there's been next to zero continuity in the Bond franchise so I assume the next one will just pick up like nothing in the Craig run ever happened.

    The Craig run is unique in the annals of Bond, as it's essentially all one semi-interconnected story.

    I believe this Bond is dead, but they'll just restart with a new one.

    I agree that the absence of a corpse leaves open the possibility of his survival, but I don't think they'll take it - and they don't need to take it.

    "Dark Knight Rises" ended with Batman in retirement - no one cried foul when he returned in "BvS", and everyone will accept the reboot next year.

    People get that these stories aren't one large character arc and they'll accept a dead character who comes back...
    Vidiot and wayneklein like this.
  14. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Hollywood, USA
    I said days ago that one of the possibilities I could see for the future of James Bond and Eon Productions was a tv series. Noted industry analyst Matt Belloni just said the same thing today:

    I’d also bet good money that the Broccolis will finally authorize a James Bond TV series or a new video game. They need to. Have you seen those exit numbers on No Time to Die? Just 20 percent of opening weekend audience was under 25, compared to 41 percent for Spectre in 2015. Yikes. This franchise will grow old and die unless young people are given a reason to care. And that means a streaming show or a modern video game, pronto.

    Matt's a very bright guy who was an editor at Hollywood Reporter for years. This is available on the Puck News service, which is a paid daily newsletter:

    Home | Puck

    No, the Broccolis have confirmed that we can take the ending at face value. There's no hidden meaning and Bond really did die at the end. As one insider, "he was already shot four times by Safin and was going to die from the bullet wounds, let alone the massive missile explosions."

    But I've already come up with three ways to work around this death, earlier in this thread. Other movie series have come up against equally difficult challenges.
    Simon A, PH416156 and wayneklein like this.
  15. I agree with all you’ve said but I guess my point is to never underestimate a studio’s need to bring back a character and establish some continuity.
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021 at 11:28 PM
    ianuaditis and Vidiot like this.
  16. The novel Dune preceded Star Wars and a lot was borrowed by Lucas from the novel.
    alexpop likes this.
  17. My ranking:
    Casino Royale
    No Time To Die
    Sky fall
    DLeet and sharedon like this.
  18. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    Ranking DC/Bond films?

    Only liked Casino Royale.

    Top 3 James Bond films.

    From Russia With Love
  19. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    I have No Time for Bond 25, but plenty time for OHMSS. George Lazenby must have been chuffed to bits with the homage. New James Bond fans are discovering OHMSS, a better Bond love story than NTTD in my humble opinion.
  20. PH416156

    PH416156 Alea Iacta Est

    Excellent post and 100% spot on about the videogames issue; too bad EON let the digital licences expire, and as of today, if you want a Bond videogame, you have to purchase it from the 2nd hand market.

    GoldenEye 007 for Nintendo 64 is considered one of the very best videogames ever, sold a massive amount of copies and helped marketing the brand. From 1995 to 2005 they released 14 Bond videogames: it did not matter if there wasn't a film to promote.

    Not every game was great but they helped keeping the franchise alive with younger audiences, and the final one featuring Brosnan (called Everything Or Nothing :D) has a plot that puts the Craig films to shame. Important note: that fantastic videogame wasn't scripted by Purvis, Wade and/or the very, very bright Waller-Bridge.

    Since Craig started, there have been 4 games; only one (007 Quantum of solace) about his storyline. Another one was a standalone mission (007: Bloodstone; rather good, actually) then there is a GoldenEye remake and 007 Legends; we see Craig's likeness in iconic missions and a portion of Skyfall. It was the year 2012. There hasn't been a Bond videogame in about 10 years!

    Noone of the Craig ones was remotely as successful as the previous ones.Not his fault (at least I hope so, I doubt he wanted to boycott the Bond videogames, too ;)) but for years videogames have often been more lucrative than several Hollywood blockbusters. Broccoli and Wilson could have found a way to help keeping Bond more relevant and target younger people too.

    Eg: Call of Duty: Modern Warmfare is a videogame that made $600M in three days :eek:
  21. shug4476

    shug4476 Nullius In Verba

    There were some excellent Bond videogames available for, I think, the original Xbox, which included a superb From Russia With Love for which Sean Connery provided the voice!! Really very good game. Pity they didn't continue producing them.
    PH416156 likes this.
  22. alexpop

    alexpop Power pop + other bad habits....

    No doubt NoTimeToDie will be included in the next Bond DVD complete set.
    David Campbell and PH416156 like this.
  23. PH416156

    PH416156 Alea Iacta Est

    That was a good one indeed, but it was weird watching a young Connery and hearing his 75 y.o. voice.

    They usually made versions for every console on the market; in that case it was also for Gamecube and Playstation 2.

    Sometimes the versions differed; eg Nightfire for computer has something different compared to its console counterpart
    shug4476 likes this.
  24. David Campbell

    David Campbell Forum Resident

    Luray, Virginia
    After reading some of the online discourse regarding this films ending, there are two things that seem to be driving a lot of the negative reactions.

    1) a lack of understanding of how the Craig films relate to the rest of the films. I've found that once some understand that the Craig films are NOT in the same continuity of the Previous films, it asuades many of their fears and questions. I've had a few conversations last evening that began with "how can they make more Bond movies? They just killed him!" and ended with " oh...that makes sense. "

    2) the uncertainty of where the franchise goes next, and in that vacuum of uncertainty and nothing official from MGM/Eon, wild conspiracy theories from the usual suspects have cropped up to the point that a lot of people have been convinced that Bond was killed off to satisfy the woke police and that Bond will soon be an overweight black trans lesbian ( yes...that wild rumor is circulating out there.).

    I think once everyone has had a chance to see the movie unspoiled, Broccolli and Wilson should consider going to the press and give an explanation of why the movie ended the way it did, clarify the nature of Craig's tenure and its continuity, and at least give some hints ot solid information about whats coming. Some assurance to those that can accept the ending for what it is, but are worried by the lack of certainty.

    I know that won't satisfy everyone and I know that they can't tell all about what's next, but I think some clarification to clamp down on the wild conspiracies and a little more certainty will go a long way to help. Basically assuring the more skeptical fans..." yes, we hear your concerns, this is why we did what we did, and yes we have a plan moving forward and that JAMES Bond will be still the star of the franchise moving forward."
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021 at 8:13 AM
    wayneklein likes this.
  25. shug4476

    shug4476 Nullius In Verba

    I still loved it despite Connery's voice! I hope somebody will remaster this for the newer gen consoles as it is one of the few decent bits of work he did at the end of his career.

    Do you remember Brandon was approached to do the voice for the Godfather game, shortly before he died? But he was off his head apparently and his voice was unusable.

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