Non Keith Moon drummer on Who By Numbers?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Chris M, Sep 8, 2006.

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  1. Steve E.

    Steve E. Doc Wurly and Chief Lathe Troll

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY, USA
    A tangent, but for the record, an early mono CD of Pet Sounds --maybe the first one-- had "Here Today" and several of the intros remixed. "Here Today" is obvious: The talking in the middle is removed and the slapback echo is missing from Mike Love's voice in the ascending vocal.
     
  2. mw1917

    mw1917 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Albany, NY
    This seems to be the most likely explanation. I've read numerous anecdotes where musicians remembered one thing, but documentation (sonic and otherwise) showed another thing (e.g., Carol Kaye claiming she played bass on many Motown classics, and of course the infamous Bernard Purdie).

    Given Elton John's manic schedule in those days, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Olsson, rushing from one session to another, confused by Numbers with the Tommy soundtrack (which was recorded several months prior) in his memory 30+ years on.
     
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  3. WhoTapes1

    WhoTapes1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greensboro, NC
    Just for the record, The Who never played Slip Kid live in 1975 - the first time played was in Zurich on 2/27/76.
     
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  4. izgoblin

    izgoblin Forum Resident

    Yeah, I don't buy that Moon isn't the drummer on that record. That it was a Tommy session makes much more sense. And Keith Moon "forgetting how to play the drums" is clearly an over exaggeration. He might have been high, he might have been lacking energy, but you don't forget how, just don't like you don't forget how to ride a bicycle. You just need a little time to warm up and get back in the groove.
     
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  5. viper66

    viper66 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Well alrighty then.
    1976 it was.:righton:
     
  6. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

    Location:
    right here
    I bet it was Pete Best.
     
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  7. johnny moondog 909

    johnny moondog 909 Beatles-Lennon & Classic rock fan

    If Pete Townshend was gonna get a sub drummer because Moon was not available. I sure don't picture him going Eureka! Let's get the guy from Elton's band they sound just like us! ( Entwistle) nodding in solemn agreement. I don't think so.

    Slip Kid with all the overdubs & unmoonlike drums, could be anyone. But its probably Moon and Townshend on percussion. Maybe it's Ray Cooper.

    People throw slings and arrows at Giles Martin, charging nepotism made him the newest chief Apple-Beatles producer honcho. Which I think is rather unfounded. Sure his heritage probably got him in the door. But many other talented acts bid for his expertise.

    Jon Astley on the other hand ? Uh I didn't care for some of his remastering. I know he coproduced Who are you way back when. His father was respected professionally. Do any talented people besides the WHO camp bid for Jon Astleys services ?

    For that matter I thought Kit Lambert was totally unqualified technically. But Lambert had interesting even grandiose ideas and gave Pete ideas. Also they had a deep bullpen with iconic producer, engineers like Glyn Johns involved. Shel Talmy was concerned about sonics, getting it sounding fat on tape. Bill Szymyck was largely a well regarded Engineer-(producer). I've never totally understood what Astleys is credited for doing specifically. But I disliked any WHO remastering I heard that he was credited with.
     
  8. Classicrock

    Classicrock Senior Member

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    Astley is mastering engineer on all but the early Tori Amos catalogue. His work is pretty good on these. As far as The Who are concerned he may have just done as asked at the time. He is behind the latest remasters (original Mix) as well as the 90's remixes. So I guess he is just another engineer doing the artist or labels bidding. Not sure why he was a co-producer on Who Are You in the first place but didn't Glyn Johns depart part way through to produce Joan Armatrading?
     
  9. Bill

    Bill Senior Member

    Location:
    Eastern Shore
    Depends if Jon's sister Karen remarried after she and Pete divorced.
    Great resume builder, it would seem.
     
  10. reb

    reb Money Beats Soul

    Location:
    Long Island
    Nigel Olsson plays drums on Pinball Wizard Tommy Soundtrack
     
  11. reb

    reb Money Beats Soul

    Location:
    Long Island
    The PT demo for Slip Kid, Pete Townshend lays down Keith Moon style drums fills. If Nigel Olsson was the drummer playing on Slip Kid, why would he not copy the demo and play in the style of Keith Moon. He had no trouble playing in Moon's style on the Pinball Wizard Track.

    Keith Moon and Pete Townshend are the percussionists / drummers on Slip Kid.
     
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  12. keifspoon

    keifspoon Senior Member

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Don't forget Graham Deakin, who was in John Enwistle's touring band Ox and one of the many drummers that also appeared on the Tommy soundtrack. He jammed with The Who on April 21, 1975 at Ramport recording studios while they were still waiting for Keith to arrive. Three days later the band would start to record "The Who By Numbers" album.
     
  13. jwb1231970

    jwb1231970 Ordinary Guy

    Location:
    USA
    I was thought it was "policemen.." something something
     
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  14. reb

    reb Money Beats Soul

    Location:
    Long Island
    The point I made remains hard to argue against. Are we to believe that The Who would hire a session drummer and instruct him not to play like Keith Moon. Isn't it more likely that a session drummer would try and play as close to Moon's style as possible, so fans would not take notice and suspect the drummer is not Keith Moon.
     
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  15. keifspoon

    keifspoon Senior Member

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Yes, but I still haven't heard a drummer play like Keith Moon. I was just pointing out that the rumors go beyond Nigel, I've heard it about Graham too, who coincidentally was also one of the drummers on the Tommy Soundtrack. For the record, I think there just that, rumors. That's unmistakably Moon on that record. How lovely is this....

     
    reb likes this.
  16. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    I wonder if Olsson also jammed with the band at some point prior to Keith's arrival, and mistakenly thought they were recording tracks (or perhaps his memory of the events got confused over time).
     
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  17. keifspoon

    keifspoon Senior Member

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    That's what I'm thinking too. I thought I read somewhere that Olsson also jammed with the band? Looking at all those Who books right now seems quite daunting. :yikes:
     
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  18. Svetonio

    Svetonio Forum Resident

    Location:
    Serbia
    In the summer 1979, I was told by an English hardcore The Who fan in London that Keith Moon was not able to participate on By Numbers recording sessions because he was enjoying the off-shore status while living in California, and as the then British law on offshore businesses was actually rigid to the British citizens who used it for paying less taxes, that prior to By Numbers sessions, Moonie had already fulfilled the quota of the number of days he was allowed - by above mentioned law - to spend in Britain as an British citizen who enjoys an off-shore status. The guy swore that Keith Moon was not in England at the time of By Numbers sessions. And I rememnber that he said that Pete Townshend played the drums on some songs and that they hired Nigel Olsson for the rest of the album.
     
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  19. Svetonio

    Svetonio Forum Resident

    Location:
    Serbia
    Nope. Tommy soundtrack was recorded January - March 1974, while By Numbers was recorded April - June 1975.
     
  20. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen "Live music is better!"

    Location:
    Canada
    Well, that might explain why when Keith Moon appeared on one of the big rock radio shows in England (Alan Freeman's?) prior to the release of The Who By Numbers and they played the album, Moonie admitted, "I've never 'eard it myself..."

    Still, the drums on at least some of the songs sound like quintessential Moon to me. Townshend could do a mean Keith Moon imitation when he wanted to but he wasn't that good...

    "I'm the best Keith Moon-type drummer in the world!!!!" - Keith Moon
     
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  21. Svetonio

    Svetonio Forum Resident

    Location:
    Serbia
    Btw, Townshend played the drums on Mike Post Theme, in my opinion the best song on Endless Wire the album. It means nothing regarding By Numbers enigma, of course, but he certainly know to play them.
     
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  22. ohnothimagen

    ohnothimagen "Live music is better!"

    Location:
    Canada
    I prefer Pete's drumming on the "You Better You Bet" demo to Kenney Jones' drumming on the Face Dances version. And that's just one example of the top of my head...
     
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  23. Mr. Fernando

    Mr. Fernando Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    But unlike KISS fans, Who fans in this thread seem to be in denial....
     
  24. keifspoon

    keifspoon Senior Member

    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    One of the better songs on Endless Wire and one of the songs that I always thought would of benefited most by the presence of Keith Moon.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
  25. Linto

    Linto Mayor of Simpleton

    Graham's an amazing player, I saw him in a pub band in Rochester in the 80s called the Dolls House, very brief group, led by the astonishing Kris Dollimore (Godfathers, Pretenders, Del Amitri, Damned) As an 18 year old drummer, watching Graham up that close was mind blowing. He's on Linked in
     
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