Ocean of Violets: Prince song by song

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Lance LaSalle, Jul 21, 2020.

  1. Andrecrabtree

    Andrecrabtree Forum Resident

    Location:
    Leicester
    Call The Law.

    3/5
     
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  2. Michael Macrone

    Michael Macrone a roMance anagram

    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    "Call the Law" right away! We've got another culprit in the Great Crimes against Prince's Music caper!

    They keep using Rosie like a human sampler of clichés, and it gets really tired, y'all.

    1/5
     
  3. alugjk

    alugjk Forum Resident

    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Call The Law

    Ugh, no, call the Roto-Rooter and flush this mess.

    1/5
     
  4. YMC4

    YMC4 Forum Resident

    Location:
    SF Valley, CA.
    i have a question for our hip-hop experts.

    granted, i'm basically a novice when it comes to the genre but...i still have lot of the major albums from the 80/90's.
    the way i remember it... it was The Chronic by Dre that was the total game-changer for the genre when it was released.

    prior to that however... most i remember was Hammer & Vanilla Ice type being the front-runner, torch carrier of hip-hop.
    if so...how are they differ from Tony M. ? is it the rhyme/flow skills or lyric itself or something else ?? we all bag on Tony for the past 30 years and i'm assuming for a good reason but... i just want to be clear on what that is. otherwise, we'll all just be bunch of mindless followers and i'm sure none of us want that ;)

    grant me some hip-hop insight SO the next time i bag on Tony... i could do it with some conviction :winkgrin:
     
  5. Michael Macrone

    Michael Macrone a roMance anagram

    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    Only if you look at the pop charts. There was a whole lot of stuff with more depth and power just below the surface. Some of it actually became legendary. Everything from Grandmaster Flash through ...

     
  6. Dan Steely

    Dan Steely See the glory of The Royal Scam

    Going by the Billboard Hot 100 of 1991, I think DJ Jazzy Jeff And The Fresh Prince, LL Cool J, Naughty By Nature and even Heavy D And The Boyz are (have) all way better rappers than MC Hammer, Vanilla Ice and our friend Tony M.
     
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  7. thekid87

    thekid87 Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Music is not just the rapper, singer, gitarist, etc.
    It’s the total package. Meaning, Tony is just part of the song. He’s not a great rapper, but he has Prince backing him up! That does count for something, right?!
     
  8. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Our votes for "Call The Law"

    1-8
    2-3
    3-5
    4-1
    5-1
    Average: 2.0444
     
  9. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Our votes for "Violet The Organ Grinder"

    1-0
    2-7
    3-6
    4-7
    5-0
    Average: 2.8075
     
  10. croquetlawns

    croquetlawns Forum Resident

    Sadly, the evidence we have suggests that having Prince backing Tony M up didn't usually make for good music.
     
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  11. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Today's song is "5 Women", written and by Prince.

    Prince - 5 Women Lyrics | AZLyrics.com

    "5 Women" was recorded in late August or early September 1990; horns were overdubbed later in 1990 or in 1991.

    Prince: vocals, instruments except:

    Levi Seacer, Jr: guitar
    Michael B: drums
    Michael B Nelson: trombone

    Steve Strand & Dave Jensen: trumpets
    Brian Gallagher: tenor saxophone
    Kathy Jensen: baritone saxophone


    "5 Women" was re-recorded Joe Cocker with producer David Tickle. Joe Cocker released his version (which I'll link to below) in 1991. Cocker's version was also released as a B-side and a promo single in Germany.

    Prince's version was not released until 1999 on the album The Vault...Old Friends 4 Sale.

    Prince occasionally pefromed "5 Women" in concerts on his 1993 and 1997 tours.


     
  12. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

  13. Piiijiii

    Piiijiii Hundalasiliah

    Location:
    Ruhr Area, Germany
    Absolutely not. It doesn't make a bad song better if Prince is involved. Just my 2 cents...


    Five Woman

    Finally another great song :)

    I like this one very much. Not top notch Prince but a great jazzy tune. I like the sparse arrangement and the organic feel that some songs on The Rainbow Children could have benefitted from.
    We are about to leave a dark era of Prince's career and I'm happy about that.

    A relieved 4/5

    Better than Cocker's version...
     
  14. Lance LaSalle

    Lance LaSalle Prince of Swollen Sinus Thread Starter

    Prince's version is a solid blues song, 4.2/5 for me.

    Joe Cocker's version is boring as ever-loving ****.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2021
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  15. Purple Jim

    Purple Jim Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bretagne
    5 Women
    A great slow groove bluesy soul number . Original? No, but I love it anyway.
    4.8/5
     
  16. DownInAHole

    DownInAHole Forum Resident

    Interesting. For whatever reason, in my mind Prince didn't start working with the Hornheads until a bit later circa 1992 and the O(+> album.

    Anyway, "Five Women." I like it well enough, he certainly released worse songs in the early nineties. This may be more blues than jazz but I do usually enjoy Prince's "jazzy" efforts and I hope there are more of them in the vault. I feel like I may be undervaluing this one but I just don't have much to say about it. I like the vocals and the instrumentation, I'll give it a 3.5/5
     
  17. YMC4

    YMC4 Forum Resident

    Location:
    SF Valley, CA.
    yeah..i get that but my question is, how does Tony differ from Chuck D. for instance cuz i honestly can't tell :shrug:

    when it gets to the Death Row era then i could hear the difference but back around 90~91'...it all sounds similar to me.
    that's why i'm asking for our hip-hop enthusiasts to shed some light on what makes a great rapper or vice-versa.

    back in my senior year in high school (88~89), Straight Outta Compton was a big record as i recall.
    to me...it was rather comical that bunch of suburban kids suddenly started rhyming N-words with hand gestures to boot :shake:
    btw, this was a time when they use to bus-in kids from inner city to suburban schools...in fact, Ice Cube went to school near us (Taft High) just a year or two earlier.

    anyhow, i'm sure there is a big difference between Tony M. and Chuck D. (or whoever else that are legendary)...i just wish to know what that is ;)
     
  18. DownInAHole

    DownInAHole Forum Resident

    I am FAR from an expert on rap but I think one big difference between Tony M. and the better rappers are his lyrics. I don't know if Prince let Tony write his own lyrics or if Prince contributed but, whoever wrote them, they were often...not good. Very full of cliches that were already old at the time.
     
  19. croquetlawns

    croquetlawns Forum Resident

    5 Women - finally, a decent song! I remember loving this the first time I heard it on a bootleg, and my opinion hasn't changed - 4.5/5.
     
  20. Tricky By Name

    Tricky By Name Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    They first started playing with him live in the various shows he did during the summer of 1991 I think
     
  21. Tricky By Name

    Tricky By Name Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    5 Women - here we go, the first song to match his new live band feel with the horn ensemble... and what a difference it makes. Good songwriting, instrumentation and storytelling all help - although it feels very 'grown up' for a Prince song. It definitely lacks the edge that we had come to know and love. Some might say it's just a little dull. I'm glad it (eventually) got a proper release though and even more glad that he didn't try to sing it in a Joe Cocker-esque voice (if only the same were true of the Kenny Rogers track!) I rarely play it, but when I hear it I always enjoy it.

    3/5
     
  22. thekid87

    thekid87 Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Netherlands
    5 Women / Five Women

    Joe Cocker's version:
    This is a dull song. There's no energy and after a minute I really lose interest and skip the song.
    Prince's (first?) demo of the song is better, but it's still kinda throwaway, like he recorded it in a single take ("Alright, we get one shot at the tape machine"). His guitar and vocal are a highlight.

    This is a 2 out of 5
    (Prince's demo is a solid 3 out of 5)

    Prince's reworked version:
    I prefer the guitar driven demo of the song. This reworked version has keys, horns and orchestra that make it almost as dull as Joe's version. Another example that when Prince reworks a song, he doesn't improve it. More on that with a classic outtake from 1985 pretty soon.

    This is a (minor) 3 out of 5
     
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  23. Orthogonian Blues

    Orthogonian Blues Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    Yes! Classic songwriting rather than cringey trend chasing.

    5 Women gets 5/5 and a hi-5 from me.
     
  24. thomas kozlowski jr

    thomas kozlowski jr Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Pittsburgh
  25. masswriter

    masswriter Minister At Large

    Location:
    New England
    1999, huh? You're right .. but I thought this album came out before Emancipaton as a contractual obligation release. Time flies and how I forget. I could have sworn it came out with Chaos and Disorder period, or was that later, too?

    Anyway, "5 Women" is a dull song, Joe Cocker or otherwise. Better songs are on the way!

    2/5
     

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