Old Rega Planar 3

Thanks for those comprehensive replies.

That description of wow is pretty much what I was expecting. I'm not really understanding how a rubber band-mounted motor would cause that, because I'd have assumed the mounting would remain stable during play? But I'll wait to see...and I don't really do 'sustained piano notes', but I can think of a few I have. (The end of A Day In The Life might be perfect!)

And that's the belt I've ordered, which should arrive today or tomorrow, along with the AT-VM95E cartridge.

In terms of anti-skate/bias, I'm hoping that this will be tolerable as currently set; as I said before, I haven't dared touch the dial yet, and there's no point until I get my parts. But if it's been set at 1.75 since the previous owner last used it (which could be many years - the vendors said it was their mate's, who died some time ago), and if it's the original belt (42 years old), how likely is it that it would fall apart as soon as I turn the dial (assuming it hasn't already!)? And if it hasn't yet fallen apart, but breaks as soon as I touch the dial, will that cause the current bias setting to reset to one extreme or other? i.e. if it seems tolerable when I get to test it, is there any point in playing with the dial?

 

I would think that if the anti-skate belt disintegrated that you would have no anti-skate which is better than too much. I think with a rubber band mounted motor, the torque would stretch the rubber band(s) and then when the pull of the rubber band exceeds the torque, the motor would rotate back to the starting position and the cycle would start over. That's how I imagine it anyway.

 

Ok, so the bits arrived, fitted & tested...and all I can say is 'wow'. But not in a good way

It plays perfectly for the first minute or so, but after that it wows randomly, which gets worse the longer it plays. It's actually quite amusing, in a perverse kind of way. I started out testing it with LZ's TSRTS from HOTH, and I've never heard it sound better. But then it started wowing...my daughter found it hysterically amusing, so now I'm exacting revenge by forcing her to sit through a whole side of one of her Demi Lovato albums

I would post a sample, but there's probably no point, apart from its comedic value. I assume this is being caused by the motor's innards reaching some critical temperature, after which things start getting bent out of shape? Fair enough, the motor's 42 years old, and the yellow plastic electrical cuboid thing on the board is cracked, which I've read is not a good look.

Motor upgrade it is, then

 

There is no doubt that a new motor will be the cure.

 

Down the rabbit hole you go!

 

A drop of superglue on the top of the shaft to secure the pulley should cure that. The 24v motor is better, as is the RB330, and latest main bearing, so if you are looking at spending real money, I'd trade it in towards the latest model. Otherwise, a drop of glue should do.

-Bill

 

That's where I went. My Rega RP1 ran absurdly fast. I bought a Groovetracer Reference subplatter. The plastic frisbee platter would not fit over the spindle on the Groovetracer subplatter. The fit between the RP1 plastic platter and the stock molded plastic subplatter was very tight to begin with. So I got a Rega 12mm glass platter.
10mm thick is the correct thickness for series 1 and 2 Rega's. There were no 10mm thick glass platters available at the time as they were being used for the soon to be introduced P2.
So then I had a great subplatter and heavy Rega glass platter. Next was the 24 volt motor upgrade and TT-PSU. I wanted an Ortofon Quintet Blue and I was not going to mount that cartridge on the Rega RB 101 tonearm. So I bought the RB 202 tonearm and the Rega multipost VTA adjuster.
I almost forgot to note the purchase of a Groovetracer underslung counterweight due to the increase in tonearm height.

 

Check out this table...just for kicks. Anyone ever used one of these tables? LSA T2

LSA Turntables | Underwood HiFi

 

Thanks, but somebody mentioned this early on, and my pulley doesn't seem loose - I can't pull it off with my fingers, so unless there's a special tool I should be using, I can't see how it can be loose enough to be causing this amount of wow...?

 

Well, it's tough not being there to see what is going on, but that's what would cause that. Basically, if the pulley slips just a little bit on the motor shaft, then the platter will slow slightly, and if the pulley then grabs back onto the shaft, the speed returns to normal. That action = wow. It's not uncommon for the pulley to be slightly loose after 40 years as it's hard to glue plastic to metal and the glue breaks as well.

Now, you could also experience some speed instability, more likely flutter, if the motor shaft were bent. Then, as the pulley went around, it would slightly relax and stretch the belt every rotation. That should be much quicker and heard more as an almost solid flutter effect. Lastly, those really old Planar tables used a rubber belt to suspend and isolate the motor from the plinth. That may have stretched and caused more movement so as to have some effect. The new motors are mounted solidly to the plinth and incorporate a smoothing circuit to lower noise.
-Bill

 

Yes, my rubber mounting belt was very stretched. I tied some string around it to tighten it, but that made it too tight, which then pushed the pulley up too high so that the platter wouldn't rotate...so then I tried sticking some sections of wooden matches under the rubber band as spacers in each metal fold, which helped, but there was still ruinous vibration. Then I tried putting a layer of rubber washing-up glove between the motor and the metal mounting plate...that fixed the vibration, but the wow remained. Then I swore profusely, gave up, and ordered the new motor kit.
Feeling better now. Not sure I'd have bothered buying it last week if I'd known what would transpire, but it is what it is, and I can't turn back now

 

If it's any consolation, I know someone who only did the motor kit (pre EBLT) on an early eighties Planar 3 and was delighted with the improvement.

 

Oh it's ok, no consolation needed - it's probably still a relative bargain at the current total cost of £303.94, with (don't jinx it!) nothing else to fix. But I suspect I'll still be down the rabbit hole for a while, worrying about other weak links in my chain...

Plus, daughter now gets an upgrade from my humble 90s Technics SL-DD33 to the solid Dual 506 - probably the best deck owned by a 13 year old anywhere in the world, and vastly better than anything I owned until I was in my 30s

 

So the new motor kit arrived yesterday and it's now fitted, albeit after a rude awakening regarding my lack of soldering skill ...I'd promised daughter that she could be the first to spin something, and she chose the 1st Demi Lovato album, on splatter vinyl...and then, because I was busy, I let her play another one (2nd Demi Lovato, also on splatter vinyl). They sounded great, or as great as this stuff can sound! After that, I was forced to watch The Brits, a thoroughly sobering experience as usual...and then it was too late for me to crank anything, so it'll be my turn soon, ALL DAY . Think I might kick things off with a couple of things I bought while I was waiting for the motor to arrive: Doolittle 25 (at £20, excellent value for a triple), and the new Sleep reissue of their two post-reform EPs, Iommic Life.

Re the possible anti-skate issue, I don't really know much about this, but I'm assuming that if the needle jumps off the edge when you lower the arm, that's a sign of excess anti-skate? And if the opposite happens (needle skips run-in grooves), that would be too little? At the moment, the needle is going exactly where it should when I lower the arm, so to me, that suggests the deck is ok, and there's no point investigating the condition of the adjuster - 'if it ain't broke', etc. Correct?

 

Personally, I'd leave the anti-skate where it is... Provided the arm cues properly (drops down vertically without veering off to the side) and provided you don't hear any distortion (particularly at the end of a side) then you should be good to go.

IMHO of course...

 

The reason the Groovetracer subplatter takes so long to sink down into the bearing housing is because it is so accurately machined it has very close tolerances. This is a good thing. It is important NOT to force the subplatter down. Just leave it and come back later, much later - it will inevitably and ultimately go all the way down. Forcing it can damage the surfaces.

There’s naturally a strong urge to put too much oil into the bearing housing but Rega specifies only two drops. Rega also stipulate a thick oil - auto diff oil - be used. I have read the suggestion that the thicker viscosity may be intended to slow the rpm slightly (since the Regas notoriously run fast).

Here is a post below from another thread quoting the official Rega service manual. I don’t remove the hub assembly from the plinth. I use the foam cleaning buds available from electronic shops - don’t use cotton buds as any stray thread that ends up in the bottom of the housing will not be a good thing. Keep cleaning with different buds, one after another until the foam bud comes out clean. Then do another with isoprop and a good scrub and a last clean one to dry everything and soak up any last bit of moisture inside. That oil you put in isn’t going to deteriorate quickly so do an oil change every 1-3 years, depends on your enthusiasm.

Once every 5-10 years you can put a drop or two of sewing machine oil, nothing heavier, into the motor shaft housing. Masking tape around the housing so you don’t get oil on the plinth. Spread a drop around the gap and leave it to soak in for a few hours. Wipe off excess.

FROM THE REGA SERVICE MANUAL
Cleaning Hub/Bearing
1. Undo hub nut and remove washer. Remove hub/bearing from turntable. As the brass bearing bush is designed to fit tightly in the plinth,
gentle tapping on the base of the bearing bush with a plastic hammer may be necessary. (We advise that this is not done in front of the
customer!)
2. Slowly withdraw the hub from the brass bearing bush, (if the hub is
pulled out quickly the ball bearing may inadvertently be sucked out and
lost). Remove ball bearing by turning the bearing bush upside down and
tapping sharply.
3. It is important that both the hub spindle and the inside of the
bearing bush are cleaned and degreased thoroughly. This is best done
using a solvent cleaner containing 1.1.1. trichloroethane which is available from R.S Components Ltd. A small amount of this can be poured into the bearing bush, and with a finger placed over the hole, shaken thoroughly and poured out. To clean the spindle apply the solvent to a piece of lint-free cloth or kitchen paper. Wipe both spindle and the ball bearing with same and replace.
4. Fit the hub back into the bearing bush and spin to check that it is
running freely. If its not, return complete assembly to Rega
5. If all is well, remove hub from bearing bush then tilt the bearing bush and place two drops of Comma Hypoid EP80, Castrol EPX80w/90 or Shell Spirax EP90, as recommended, in the position as illustrated. Do not use more than two drops.
6. With the bush still tilted, slide hub (without twisting) back into bearing bush. This method should ensure a release passage for trapped air.
7. Spin hub to evenly distribute oil and refit into turntable. Replace washer and tighten nut firmly, using an adjustable spanner or Rega tool,
to approximately 5Nm, (a full explanation of this torque can be found on
Explanation of torque)
IMPORTANT
It is essential that the recommended oil is used as any other lubricant
will break down under pressure, causing wear. It is available from most
car accessory shops or from Rega, free of charge.
Degreasing: RS Components stock a solvent cleaner containing 1.1.1.
trichloroethane which is suitable for degreasing the hub/bearing
assembly and lift lower assembly. Please note warning on solvent tin

If you’ve got an old Rega or have the P1 or P2. Like everyone, you’ll get the urge to do an upgrade, then another, and another. And like everyone before you, you’ll finish doing the upgrades and realise you’ve spent as much in total, maybe even more, than if you’d just bought the most expensive Rega at the beginning. It used to be that an upgraded old Rega was close enough to the latest model but the improvements made more recently negate that. If you buy a cheaper model now and think you’ll do an upgrade on it - trust me - you’re much better off selecting the best, latest model Rega you can afford, then don’t eat for a month and sell your dog so you can buy the next model up again. In 10 years when you’re spinning your vinyl you’ll be able to say to yourself, “I’m sure glad I bought this turntable and not that more basic one.”

Groovetracer, Audiomods. These upgrades are a no-brainer though - impeccable precision engineering.