Old US Pressing of ‘Beggar's Banquet’ at Correct Speed

I believe you; I was wondering if my side 2 was running slow.

 

If nobody beats me to it I'll upload clips later today.

 

Yeah, I was more making sure I believe me. I have been know to mess up. When I first saw this thread I thought the LP I already had matched your matrix numbers, but it didn't. Then I found another copy that I thought matched, but only one side (apparently) matches. It's all pretty confusing, honestly.

I can upload something from the SACD...just let me know what track you want.

 

‘Street Fighting Man’ would be fine.

 

Here you go. It's about the first 1:30.

https://www.yousendit.com/download/QlVqZm1aQk5wTVdHR3NUQw

 

Thank you. It seems that my version of ‘Street Fighting Man’ is slow…but my version of ‘Stray Cat Blues’ isn't…what the ****???

 

Hold on…would this be considered a match?

 

hhmmm....turns out I just might have the pressing Esszet has. I remembered having a US Beggars Banquet I had stashed in a crate and it seems to be the one, same labels and matrix as his picture, tiny scribed date on side two - nothing else. My collection is the UK Decca 1st pressing + the 2000-something DSD cut vinyl. I'll try to put these all on later tonite and see whats up.

 

That is roughly the same speed as the SACD, yes.

 

Correction: exact same matrices as Esszets, labels same color but slightly different (thinner) font. Esszets label says 'Side 1' and 'Side 2' while mine are printed i.e. 'Side One' and 'Side Two'. And...on side two, in the dead wax, is a tiny lightly stamped word I had to use a jewelers loop to read. It says: Matrix

 

Both sides are the correct pace. Perceptibly faster than my UK 1st pressing, the same as the DSD sourced vinyl. Interesting indeed.

 

I just snagged one of these yesterday. Mine looks like the OP's in all material respects save one.

The common characteristics are: same blue label (i.e., NOT the really deep blue shiny label); Jagger-Richard song credits on ALL 10 cuts on the LP labels; 6 lines of text below the songs on the back cover; and identical matrixes to the OP's, with no other text at all in the dead wax.

The only difference is, at 6:00 on the labels, my copy says "Made in the USA" and above that the matrix no. is printed and ends with a "W" and not a "TH" like the forum member who, at post #58, posted pix of his labels. The OP's labels do not have the "Made in USA" text or the matrix at 6:00 PM.

LP sounds fatastic by the way, a very nice sounding record. And that is saying a lot for me, because I grew up on the UK stereo version (boxed blue label - still have it). You can also tell that it runs faster than one is accustomed to hearing this record.

 

that Matrix would be AudioMatrix. I just found a copy very similar to yours. This one has 8-19-68 very light on both sides, a nearly invisible AudioMatrix on both sides (didn't see it until I had the record under a very strong light), and also a Bestway stamp on one side (def. pressed there, the matrix numbers are at the bottom of both sides with -BW at the end). The hand-scribed matrices in the deadwax are AM - XZAL - 8476 - A and AM - XZAL - 8477 - B. Like some of the other copies with pics posted here, the scribing is definitely from the same hand but subtly different.

As far as the speed on this one ... I'm not decided yet. I unscientifically timed it out with a stopwatch and some tracks seemed to line up with the SACD times posted earlier, some seemed to be a second or two off. I'll do some needledrops and see what I come up with when I get a chance. I really wish I had a copy of the DSD vinyl to compare with now. heh. I guess I can compare it with the old German copy I have ... I dumped my original US press years ago.

 

I have that same LP and it's an original pressing. I bought it while X-mas shopping in December 1968 and immediately had to recalibrate my per-family-member gift budget after spending four bucks on myself for the LP.

45 years later it remains a vivid memory... waiting for the train at Glen Ellen station... rushing home through the snow... dropping the needle in the groove and...

I think "gobsmacked" is the correct term. I played the album five times that night.

 

Well.....

after carefully comparing six distinct original US cuttings, including a Monarch and the exact one the OP refers to, I found..... all are slower to some degree than the DSD sourced pressing/SACD.

However......the best sides (the 1968 'dated' ones and the matrix the OP has) are the best of the US lot; being slower than the correct time by approximately one second per minute of playing. The UK pressing and the US 'Matrix' stamped one were a tad slower than these. The mastering on the Matrix was the least of the bunch, the UK being the best.
I timed each comparison with a standard watch with a second hand and made sure to play each track 2 times at a sitting and sometimes 3. I did this over two evenings spread about a week apart.

Incidentally, each side of the OP's LP is from a different mastering or cutting, but I did have another LP with the 'mate' side. It seems pretty clear that the lacquers, as they were made, created of a lot of stampers which did not necessarily 'stay together' to make a matched pressing. Oh well - par for course on these super popular LPs.

Interestingly my GF provided the non-audiophile ear feedback during most of the comparisons, and she was surprisingly accurate. I wouldn't tell her which LP was which as I put them on, yet she always picked out the DSD vinyl. She noted than when you get used to hearing the LP at the proper speed the other ones clearly start to sound like they 'drag'.

 

Thanks for doing more research on this ... glad I bumped it.

I'm keeping an eye out for the DSD vinyl. As per usual with me and reissue vinyl, the train seems to have left the station on this one before I decided I "need" one. I completely ignored these Stones reissues when they initially came out since I was in the middle of tracking down vintage UKs for most of the Decca-era albums at the time. But after reading old threads about them here recently I'm kinda feeling like there's a couple I should pick up.

 

I've been seeing brand new Stones DSD vinyl at Half Price Books. Not sure if there's one in your area, but it's worth taking a look.

 

Slow or fast, I don't care but I prefer my boxed Decca mono pressing. It might be a fold-down ( except for one song ) but it gives the album a different feel and sounds great.

 

Yup, been seeing them around here as well (I was tempted by a DSD Hot Rocks last weekend, in fact). Beggar's Banquet has not shown up around here. I just need to do a serious search online, there's still copies out there.

 

Brought the old German Decca and the "8-19-68" London in today for some headphone comparison. Wow, I can see why I kept this Decca over the US press years ago. Much livelier sounding.

 

I think that's right. After all, it's not unheard of for the producer or artist to decide to speed up or slow down the master in making the LP pressing. I've always assumed that Beggars Banquet was deliberately speed-adjusted for LP. It makes it sound heavier. If I listen to the "corrected" SACD, then Jig Saw Puzzle sounds positively frenetic. I prefer to think the Stones and Jimmy Miller slowed it 2% on purpose.

Dylan (and/or Phil Ramone) had Blood on the Tracks sped up in mastering it. It makes it perkier, tighter. If you want to hear it unslowed, there's the old MoFi LP. But whereas that is acknowledged to disregard the artist's final intentions, the Beggars Banquet LP seems to be considered accidentally mastered that way.

 

But

1. the very existence of this thread shows that some first pressings were cut at the right speed -- surely there should have been cut X% slow/fast on the master tape if that was the desired effect?
2. the Stones had final approval over the SACD program, so could have insisted on a speed change then if that had been their original intent.

 

It sounds to me like the LP stereo master was cut with a reduction in speed, except for some of them. I don't know how we can know which one is what anyone intended, if that's the case. As for the Stones' final approval, who's to say they took a close interest in this? Even in 1968 I'll bet their attitude was "OK Jimmy, make us sound good, I'm out of here."

 

Mine is like the above with the line under Beggars Banquet but on side 1 shows XZAL-8476A kind of small and a larger XZAL-8477B on side 2. After timing(w/stopwatch) the start of SFTD to the last note several times it does come to the correct 6:17.
Sorry my pics are a little fuzzy and I don't have the capability to attach audio.

 

I found another copy of what I think is a correct running speed of this LP, but the matrixes are slightly different to both the OP's and the copy I found earlier mentioned in Post 162. I played SFTD on both copies and they sound to me to be both running at the "correct" (i.e., the non slow) speed. Interesting. Anyone have a copy of this one to confirm what I hear?

Matrix Details:
Side 1: T XZAL 8476 A-1
Side 2: T XZAL - 8476 B-2

Note: The "T" on both sides precedes the XZAL by about an inch.

Thoughts?