Old US Pressing of ‘Beggar's Banquet’ at Correct Speed

I found a US Monarch today in really good shape that plays faster than my 70's UK Decca. My Decca has a lot more clarity (as expected) but this Monarch sounds a lot more in tune to me.

 

That the Decca would have more clarity is actually not expected.

 

Why is that?

 

Because the Decca would have used a dub.

 

So the States had the master?

 

It was mixed in LA.

 

I wonder why that would be since they weren't touring the States at that time?

 

geeky queston re: dates -- Keith in Los Angeles - July 1968

 

Interesting. But couldn't they have just taken the tapes home to London afterwards?

 

Based on the release history, it seems likely that it was first mastered in LA from the master tapes, with EQ'd copies being sent to Decca and London for further cuts.

 

That could mean that all first US pressings were in correct speed while the tape copies for the UK were made in slightly slower speed.
Or Decca just played the masters in wrong speed while cutting the A and B plates for vinyl.

 

My guess is an EQ'd cutting master was made during the initial cutting, which was made off-speed.

Decca didn't have the masters.

 

So which is the original real first press run of Beggars Banquet? UK or US? Using what generation of tape?
For the record, I think the UK Decca sounds great, when you speed up the turntable 2%
And, at the same level, with a bit more detail, IMO, is the Mo Fi from the 1984 box set.

 

And these ones with the date in the matrix

• Matrix / Runout (Side 1 Etched): XZAL 8476 A
• Matrix / Runout (Side 2 Etched): XZAL-8477 8-19-68

The Rolling Stones - Beggars Banquet

any indication as to where they were pressed?

 

I wouldn't define anything on "original real first press run", which is kind of a meaningless term, but the UK only ever had an off speed copy tape, while it seems that some US pressings were cut from the masters. Others were of course cut from off speed copies.

 

Was able to compare this Monarch to my UK yesterday and the US definitely plays at the correct speed. Seems like a first pressing judging from the albums listed on the inner sleeve. Sounds nice if a little veiled but my U.K. sounds pretty strident. Happy I found it!

 

I found this thread when I realised, - and was very dissapointed, - that the BB in the Mono-Box was speed ”corrected”, so it matched the 2002 DSD release.
I had hoped - and expected that it would be the 1968 Mono release, - just brushed up !


I knew the old story of the slow running tape mashine, - and the ”old” CDs being similar to the vinyls, - and this was first to be corrected with the 2002 release, - and so on . . . .
The whole matter intrigued me, - so I decided so listen, - and A/B compare all
the releases I have of BB, - and the singles that was released from it.
The result was quite surprising, - at least to me.


When comparing,, I soon realised, that I had at least One steady factor :
Sympathy For The Devil runs at the same speed on all releases, - from Mono vinyl 1968 - to 2002 DSD CD. . . ! Different running times are only coursed by different fadings !


The Decca Mono and Stereo vinyl releases are exactly similar, - with the exception that SFTD fades a few seconds later on the Mono release (6.31+ / 6.27 )


Street Fighting Man/ No Expectations A/B was released as a single , and they were both speeded up slightly for this, - becomming the versions we all know, -from all later compilations and releases.
The versions on the original Decca BB-vinyls were a little slower . . .


On the first CD release, Europe, London, 1984 – Street Fighting Man, - and No Expectations, - are similar to the 7”single release, - and Prodigal Son, and Factory Girl were speeded up as well, -

This means that ”Begars Banquet” has never had a CD-release that reflects the original vinyl-releases! ! !


On the 2002 DSD release . . . ”No Expectations” is speeded up furtherly - so is ”Factory Girl” . . . .
”Dear Doctor”, - Parachute Woman” - ”Zig Saw Puzzle” ”Stray Cat Blues” and ”Salt Of The Earth” are all speeded up, - leaving ”Sympathy For The Devil”, ”Street Fighting Man” and ”Prodigal Son” similar to the 1984-release, -

IMO ”Jig Saw Puzzle” is the most bizare song on the 2002 DSD release – so fast, that it makes Jagger sound like a mixture of a School choir boy – and Mickey Mouse. I really find it hard to believe it was recorded like this ! ! !


Well, - the vinyls are what they are, - but speed correction was done from the very first CD release, - and not for the whole album - only number by number !

This brings me back to this threads main subject : Does there really exist a London vinyl release, that runs faster than the Decca releases ? -Apparently yes, - but info´s about
"how" it is faster, will be great ! Is it the whole album ? Is it a few songs . . . and so on . . . . -

If it exists, I will expect it to be similar to the first CD release, meaning that ”Street Fighting Man”, ”No Expectations” , ”Prodigal Son” and ”Factory Girls” runs a little faster than on other Decca and London copies.

References:
BB, Decca SKL 4955. Matrix XZAL-8476-1K / XZAL-8477-1K (Early pressing, - cover states "Patent Pending"

BB, Decca LK 4955, Matrix XARL-8476-4A / 2A (Early pressing ?)

"Street Fighting Man" / "No Expectations", 7" Orange Swirl Promo, STEREO, - London 45-909DJ
(the MONO-7" is irrelevant for comparing, as it holds a different production with an alternate vocal)

BB, London, Germany, 1984, First Pressing - (Old London-Logo) 800 084-2 03

BB, Abcko 75392, - USA - (This release is, - regarding speed, - similar to the 1984-release, - but note that all printet runningtimes
are 3 - 5 seconds shorter than the actual runningtimes ! )

BB, Abcko, 2002 DSD Remastered

"Sympathy For The Devil" / "Prodigal Son", Decca DL 25610, 7", Germany 1973/74
- Prodigal Son runs at the same slow speed, as on original Decca BB-vinyls.

 

The mono box version was not "corrected", it runs at the speed of the mix.

That is incorrect. Pre-2002 CD versions run noticeably slower than 2002 and later versions.

Nothing was speeded up. The 2002 release is the speed the songs were recorded at.

 

The mono box vinyl version seems fast to me. My original US London stereo seems correct. My original UK Decca stereo is slow.

 

I believe some London copies are closer to the correct speed, but that all run slow to some degree.

There's no evidence that the 2002 is at the wrong speed.

 

What is the 2002?

 

The SACD. First digital release from the master tapes.

 

Ok. Never heard that. Just early vinyl versions and new mono box.

 

The mono box runs at the same speed.

 

This is interesting ! - so I expanded the reference-material with :


”Singles Collection, - The London Years” Abcko 1989, - (6.23)

”Singles Collection, - The London Years” Abcko 2002, - (6.16)

”40 Licks”, Abcko/Virgin/Decca, - (6.15)

”SFTD-Remix” – 6 track CD, Abcko 2003, - (6.15, - labeled 6.27)

”SFTD-Remix” – 7 track CD, Abcko 2003, - (6.16)

”Rolled Gold +”, Abcko/Decca/Universal 2007, - (6.15)

- and ”speciality” – the Dutch Decca 6103 066, 1973, 7” with Ad Boumanns

”Radio Veronika Edit” - removing 2 verses, - in reversed stereo -


and ”Sympathy For The Devil” plays at exactly the same speed on all releases !

(including those already listed)


BUT, - there is ONE exception -


On ”Rolled Gold” Decca ROST1/2, 1975, vinyl, - SFTD runs at

”a noticeably slower” speed !

It fades at 6.27 - and I have never noticed – (or listened for) – this.

It is a pure fact, - for which I have no explanation.