Been deleted before, for speaking my mind. My thoughts are, they were a great rock band until they followed the disco these. There was nothing like them for many years! As a somewhat lifelong fan, I had Destroyer on 8-track around 1980, as well as Judas Priest sin after sin, priest took the most listening, Kiss were great, for what they were, but their albums have so much filler. I still have a spot in my heart for them,but after purchasing no less than 6+ ( so called farewell tour tix) I will, no longer give them my very hard earned money. They blew it. Still love the early albums, and yes, Dynasty also when in the mood. Good rock band during their heyday.
I bet we’ll get some sort of massive Vault-like set for KISS eventually - I never thought Gene’s Vault would succeed as well as it (apparently) did so I can’t help but think we’ll see something like that again...
I really wanted to learn about the "failure" of the Crazy Nights era but I read a few chapters out of that book and it was worse than what some of my 9th grade students write. Maybe I'll, gasp, use my local library for the CN book and The Elder book so i don't have to shell out $40.
It’s 125 pages of arguing, like every KISS thread. The rest of your post is nothing but typical band vs band stuff.
Too bad I wasn't around for that one. I was reading through some of it and hadn't realized before just how many regulars here are kind of closed-minded about progressive rock. Anyway, I definitely agree with you. It's one of the greatest achievements. I wouldn't say that anything surpasses it. But I'd say there are lots of things that equal it, with some of those things being very different, so that they capture different aspects of the heights of what we can do with rock, such as the Trashmen's "Surfin' Bird."
To me, it is 125 pages of folks that say they like them and mostly the rest are those that don't know how to constructively criticize the band with musical references. Instead they hurl what is basically insults at the band and its fans. Schoolyard stuff. Here is the definition of "argue". "Give reasons or cite evidence in support of an idea, action, or theory, typically with the aim of persuading others to share one's view." Unless of course "terrible", "they stink" or "their fans are brainless", "comic book music" constitute reasons or cite evidence in support of an idea. Their aim is to insult and not to have an intelligent discussion. Those that reply that way have no other choice because they don't know enough either about the band or, about what the workings of music are in general. I will admit, most of the detractors "opinions" fall into the kind based on no facts or knowledge. In the end, I better stop giving my "opinion" that they are insults because I was already reported for saying that an opinion such as "Kiss fans are music idiots" is in fact an insult. PS- I am not saying you two have thrown insults.....just the opposite. I am just venting.
Haha--yeah, completely serious. Rock doesn't excel at just doing one thing, and you can't do everything in the same tune, really, as "Close to the Edge" and "Surfin' Bird" are complete opposites in many ways and neither would work as well if they didn't pursue a particular track. In other words, you couldn't really compromise the two and have the same effect. "Surfin' Bird" is exemplary of the merits of the track of just how much relative simplicity, fun, raw energy, etc. can be emotionally resonant and kick ass. And this is part of why I'm such a huge Zappa fan, by the way. Zappa realized and embraced all the different tracks that rock can take, which is why you get tracks like "Big Leg Emma" next to "The Black Page #2," or "Greggery Peccary" followed by "Lemme Take You to the Beach" (followed by "Revised Music for Guitar & Low-Budget Orchestra"), "Big Swifty" followed by "Your Mouth," etc.
I just don’t buy into your theory of having to persuade others to share one’s opinion, particularly since you have made it abundantly clear you approach it from a technical POV, and anything less than that is below your standards. Yngwie Malmsteen may be considered one of the most technically proficient guitarists in the world, but do you think I factor that in when I’m listening to his music? I couldn’t care less. Either I like what he’s playing, or I don’t. Now, that’s not to say I think insulting the hardcore fans is right either. But bottom line...I really don’t think anyone is ever going to change anyone else’s opinion about this band. Not by guitar breakdowns, and not by hurling insults. Whoever said the thread topic was too open ended was right. With this band, it was just asking for trouble.
But would you agree that if someone makes the statement "Kiss's music is simplistic" that a statement such as that gets into the technical side of the music? I answered someone who made that statement with a request to discuss why they thought that way. It was not a request to share my opinion. In fact, most of the statements I replied to merely asked what the person based their opinion on. One of the persons I asked to discuss it with reported me for harassing them. Think about that.....it is "harassment" to ask someone how they formed an opinion!!!!! How crazy is that. Heck, I might have agreed with them and learned something. I disagree with the statement that I approach it strictly from a technical POV. I rarely like or dislike music based solely on technical aspects. I can't tell you how many technically great musicians that I do not like listening to. However, you would never hear me claim that "Yngwie Malmsteen is a crappy guitar player". And yet that is said over and over again from some in this forum. To me, a statement like that goes beyond "I don't like his style or music". That statement is near to a statement of fact to some extent. As a side, I do not like all of his music. I don't think it is harassment to ask that person exactly what technical part of his playing is "crappy". Usually, they do not respond or respond with "I don't have to tell you how I came to my conclusion. It is just an opinion". I hope you don't mind discussing this and don't take this the wrong way however, please take this into consideration regarding your opinion of me...…..There is a lot of Kiss music that I like. Maybe around 70% of their output. How can a person (such as I) who likes them, solely derive their favorability based on the technical proficiency of the band? Finally, there is a reason why the term "armchair quarterback" arose and I think that applies here in some cases as well. Let me know if you don't care to discuss this anymore and I will end it here.
When someone says their music is simplistic...that may be how it comes across to them. Honestly, a lot of their lyrics are just plain dumb IMO (as are a lot of rock lyrics actually). So, in that regard...I think they definitely can be seen as simplistic. But I still like to listen to their early albums up to Love Gun or so. I look past the stuff I don’t like and just enjoy the rock and roll aspect of it, and frankly it brings me to a really happy time in my life. There’s really not much you can say to someone who says their music is simplistic IMO...it’s your basic riff rock and roll with pretty dopey lyrics. They aren’t pushing the boundaries of rock music here. It’s based on Humble Pie, Mountain and Slade. I still like it...up to a point.
I think really, that was my biggest beef.. to say Kiss is simplistic with dumb lyrics and then say but I like "..." pretty much shows the comment to be a nonesense, because "..." is no different, they just have a better music forum cred lol ... most folks wouldn't even say who they liked because they knew they were being hypocritical... but they were sinking the boots into Kiss, that's all they wanted to do..... and i guess that's fair, it's just a bit childish though.
a close second... Paul Stanley Folgers commercial (is this for real?): third prize - The Replacements: The Replacements - Black Diamond(KISS Cover) (REMASTERED) tie w/ Unrest's God Gave Rock 'N roll to you : Unrest - God Gave Rock'n'Roll To You 1992
If you step back and think about all this...a bunch of adults arguing about KISS (or ANY band from 4 or 5 decades ago) is pretty damn silly. I’m sure we’ve all learned from this experience, and next time it will turn out better. Naaaaaaah
I wasn't trashing ELP. It was more of the thought that they don't evoke hate like Kiss does. Most people don't have an opinion of ELP. a lot of people have an opinion of Kiss because of Gene running his mouth bu they know nothing about the music.
I was just listening to my KISS 2014 vinyl re-issues, the first 3 and the sublime Alive and damn are they good. Sorry, back to the bickering...........
