Orchard Audio Starkrimson Stereo Ultra Amp Tour!

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Ted Torres Jr, Jun 19, 2022.

  1. orchardaudio

    orchardaudio Orchard Audio

    Location:
    Succasunna, NJ
    I have sent you a pm.
     
  2. orchardaudio

    orchardaudio Orchard Audio

    Location:
    Succasunna, NJ
    Update...

    Reviews:
    @Ted Torres Jr -- here and here and here
    @james -- the review is at this link (post #7)
    @Oliver Meyer -- the review is at this link (post #37)
    @Jaytor -- the review is at this link (post #66)
    @gguy -- the review is at this link (post #111)
    @naru1980 -- the review is at this link (post #147)
    @okc_craft -- the review is at this link (post #165)
    @RonN5 -- the review is at this link (post #192)
    @barondla -- the review is at this link (post #214)
    @DennyCrane -- the review is at this link (post #224)

    1. @nymarty --review in the works
    2. @MValentiner - the amplifier was received on 12/18/2022
    3. @OBLuver -- confirmed as the next person the amp will go to.
    4. @jimbones
    5. @Nick BZ
    6. @buckdog58
    7. @Fafan111
    8. @Devg
    9. @thomaskong
    10. @Paul_In_WA
    11. @rhing
    12. @hman
     
  3. nymarty

    nymarty Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ridgewood, NJ
    First off, a big thanks to @orchardaudio for doing this. Thank you, Leo. It's not often that you get to spend time with a company’s equipment in your own room, in your own system, unless you’ve already paid for it or you’re working with a dealer that you’ve already spent some money with.

    The Starkrimson Stereo Ultra amp was the first class D amp I've ever had in my system. I've heard class D amps before this -- at dealers and at Capital Audio Fest -- but not for any real time. Most of my exposure, though, has been in forums where some people love them and some people say they can't listen to them. So the first night with the Ultra was an eye opener for me. It sounded great. It's musical, has a really nice midrange, is detailed at the top and is fast and impactful at the bottom. To be honest, it sounded as good as my other amps -- all class AB -- and had a similar tonal quality. It wasn't the same as those other amps but it wasn't so different -- and was maybe a little better overall.

    So, for comparison I was listening to Belles Aria monoblocks and a McCormack DNA-1. Both are very good amps -- at least to me. I use a Schiit Freya + as preamp ( in tube mode ), fed by a Denafrips Ares 2 DAC streaming Qobuz via Roon through an iFi Zen Stream (connected to Mac Mini as Roon core in another part of the house). While I had the amp, I played around with 2 of my speakers -- Vandersteen 3a Signatures and KEF LS 50 Metas.

    I started with the Vandersteens and listened to the Ultra for a few days. I've only had the Vandys for a few months but have played them almost non-stop since I picked them up (not new; 19 years old). They do bass really well, have a warm midrange and are not overly bright on the top end. They really like more power and the Ultra provided it. Bass notes really stood out to me because they were clear and fast and tight. On recordings with a standup bass, there were moments when it really did sound like an instrument in the room. I really enjoyed just listening to the Ultra for a few days. Then I did 2 nights of comparisons with the Belles and the McCormack. What was interesting is that it had some of the warmth of the Belles (really did well with both female and male singers, but the Belles is a little better on female vocals), including a clear top end with nice cymbals and air, but also had the bass authority of the McCormack which has similar power. The Vandys image very well and vocalists and instruments were well placed with the Ultra.

    I also listened to all 3 amps with the LS50 Metas. The Ultra was pretty great with the Metas. I like the Belles with the Metas, but the Ultra just pushed them to a different level. They sounded like bigger speakers, with more bass than I'd ever noticed before and a slightly wider soundstage. Imaging was very good. The McCormack also pairs well with the Metas but it's a different sound and wasn't as smooth at the top end or in the midrange than the Ultra (or the Belles). FWIW, I bought the McCormack new over 25 years ago and it still sounds pretty great.

    In summary, the Ultra is a really good amp (not just for a class D amp, but for any amp). It just played whatever music I sent over and played it beautifully Both my speakers, which tend to like a lot of power, sounded just a little better overall when playing the Ultra. Of the 3 amps I was playing with, it was the most complete amp for me. It gave me what I like about the Belles but with the bass of the McCormack. As to whether I'd buy an Ultra? Yes, I would. The dual mono version, which is what I want, is expensive enough that I'd probably want to audition a few more amps though before spending that money. If I was more DIY inclined, it would be a no-brainer at that lower DIY price. I also haven’t had a class A amp yet and want to at least audition one before pulling the trigger on a new amp.

    Again, thanks to Leo for loaning the amp out to audition.
     
  4. orchardaudio

    orchardaudio Orchard Audio

    Location:
    Succasunna, NJ
    Update...

    Reviews:
    @Ted Torres Jr -- here and here and here
    @james -- the review is at this link (post #7)
    @Oliver Meyer -- the review is at this link (post #37)
    @Jaytor -- the review is at this link (post #66)
    @gguy -- the review is at this link (post #111)
    @naru1980 -- the review is at this link (post #147)
    @okc_craft -- the review is at this link (post #165)
    @RonN5 -- the review is at this link (post #192)
    @barondla -- the review is at this link (post #214)
    @DennyCrane -- the review is at this link (post #224)
    @nymarty -- the review is at this link (post #278)

    Upcoming Individuals
    1. @MValentiner - the amplifier was received on 12/18/2022
    2. @OBLuver -- confirmed as the next person the amp will go to.
    3. @jimbones
    4. @Nick BZ
    5. @buckdog58
    6. @Fafan111
    7. @Devg
    8. @thomaskong
    9. @Paul_In_WA
    10. @rhing
    11. @hman
     
    MValentiner likes this.
  5. DennyCrane

    DennyCrane Well-Known Member

    Nice write up, Marty. Having heard some Vandersteen speakers lately, I bet the Ultra was a good match for them!
     
    barondla, nymarty and orchardaudio like this.
  6. barondla

    barondla Forum Resident

    Location:
    Missouri, USA
    Excellent write up Marty. Did you run the Freya + in balanced mode? What was your normal volume setting range? I've thought of adding a Freya + to the stable.

    Small class A amps can sound beautiful. If the Vandys want 200 watts per channel, all class A, it is going to be big, hot and expensive. Even then, it will be tough to match the bass of the Ultra.

    Thanks,
    barondla
     
    nymarty likes this.
  7. nymarty

    nymarty Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ridgewood, NJ
    I was running balanced cables from the Freya + to the Ultra. I should have called that out in my write up. My other amps are single ended only so the Ultra was the only amp running fully balanced. I was using a pink noise tone at 64db to set the listening level whenever I made comparisons. That track is pretty low compared to what music tracks play at, though, which ranged from 75-85db at the listening position.

    I like the Freya + a lot. It’s the most versatile preamp out there for the money. Fully balanced, 3 modes (passive, active, tube), and multiple outputs for connecting amps and subs. And it sounds really good.

    I miss having the Ultra in my system. If I didn’t already own 3 amps (also have a Schiit Vidar) I would be ordering one.
     
  8. ejk1

    ejk1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Staten Island, NY
    I had a Freya N here for about 2 days and used it with the balanced connection. The soundstage and imaging were really good. Dead quiet. I sold it to a friend I just couldn't deal with the sound from the 6922 tubes. No gain issues with the Starkrimson ultra in the Freya's tube mode. Maybe down the line I will try the Freya+. I'm content right now using my Rogue with 12au7 tubes.
     
    barondla and orchardaudio like this.
  9. orchardaudio

    orchardaudio Orchard Audio

    Location:
    Succasunna, NJ
    I have quite a few customers with Freya as pre-amp, and have only heard good things about it.
     
    barondla likes this.
  10. orchardaudio

    orchardaudio Orchard Audio

    Location:
    Succasunna, NJ
    I have a used PecanPi Streamer Rev 2 (no S/PDIF input) for sale, it has Roon endpoint software installed on it. 450+ shipping.
    Can change to Volumio/moOde Audio/Picoreplayer upon request.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  11. orchardaudio

    orchardaudio Orchard Audio

    Location:
    Succasunna, NJ
    Update...

    Reviews:
    @Ted Torres Jr -- here and here and here
    @james -- the review is at this link (post #7)
    @Oliver Meyer -- the review is at this link (post #37)
    @Jaytor -- the review is at this link (post #66)
    @gguy -- the review is at this link (post #111)
    @naru1980 -- the review is at this link (post #147)
    @okc_craft -- the review is at this link (post #165)
    @RonN5 -- the review is at this link (post #192)
    @barondla -- the review is at this link (post #214)
    @DennyCrane -- the review is at this link (post #224)
    @nymarty -- the review is at this link (post #278)
    @MValentiner -- review in the works

    Upcoming Individuals
    1. @OBLuver -- the amp is on the way to this person
    2. @jimbones -- I will be reaching out shortly
    3. @Nick BZ
    4. @buckdog58
    5. @Fafan111
    6. @Devg
    7. @thomaskong
    8. @Paul_In_WA
    9. @rhing
    10. @hman
     
  12. MValentiner

    MValentiner Well-Known Member

    Location:
    55406
    Orchard Audio Starkrimson Stereo Ultra Review
    Michael Valentiner

    A big thanks to Leo for the opportunity to evaluate the Orchard Audio Starkrimson Stereo Ultra amp.

    The short story is, it is hard to add anything that hasn't been already said about this amp. It is detailed, dynamic, lively, has well defined bass, etc. Superlative in many aspects. Here's my longer story.

    During this evaluation, I also had on hand, a number of other amps for comparison. I will give my impressions of all the amps. In turn, each was connected to the Parasound using XLR cables keeping everything else the same. They are the

    Starkrimson Ultra
    Class D Audio Mini GaN 3
    Benchmark AHB2
    Atma-Sphere S-30 amp

    My system consists of a Thoren TD 320 turntable, Sony UBP-X800M2 disc player, Parasound Halo P5 pre-amp, Atma-Sphere S-30 amp, and Spatial M4 Sapphire open baffle speakers. I am a vinyl/tube guy, but have a large collection of CDs. I use the Sony as a transport and feed the digital out through the DAC in the Parasound. I primarily listen to acoustic music, jazz, folk, classical, and occasionally, the 60-70's rock of my childhood. My room is a multi-purpose living room, not an ideal, dedicated listening room.

    My evaluation consists of my opinions in my system in my room playing my music. While I try to be objective, my opinions are inherently subjective. The descriptors I use often fall short of communicating the true aural nature of what I hear.

    For those not familar with the Atma-Sphere S-30, I consider it one of the top tube amplifier designs of the past forty years. It is an output-transformer-less amplifier design by Ralph Karsten, active on this and many audio forums. Searching out and reading his posts is an education in high end audio. It was hearing his class D amp at Axpona that peaked my interest in GanFET amps. That fact that a top tube guy of the past forty years is now in the class D / GanFET camp says a lot for the technology.

    To drive the 4 ohm Spatial M4s with the Atma-Sphere S-30, I use Paul Speltz’s Autoformers(Increase Speaker Impedance – ANTICABLES Autoformers & Zero Boxes ) to multiply the impedance to the liking of the S-30. This presents 16 ohms to the S-30 making it easier to drive. The Autoformers proved to be a valuable tool dialing in the best sound from each amp. I'll discuss this more below.

    Initial impressions
    -----------------------

    Atma-Sphere S-30 - I've had this amp a few years and it has been the source of much joy. It has been detailed, transparent, and produces an uncolored, natural sound. In comparison with the class D amps, the inherent tube distortion is obvious. No surprise here and not necessarily a bad thing. While I previously felt it was detailed, it is nowhere as detailed as the class D amps. With the M4s, it creates a deep, spacious soundstage.

    Mini GaN 3 - Extremely detailed, but bright. The most clarity of the amps. Very lively. But, after a day of listening, the overall brightness and “trebly-ness" (words of my non-audiophile partner) were wearing on me. I was driving the M4s directly from the S-30 at 4 ohms, so I decided to insert the Autoformers and try 8, then 12 ohms. This made the situation worse with the high end becoming quite harsh and brittle. This was obviously a failed experiment. A feature of the Autoformers is that the can be turned around and rather than multiple impedance, it can divide (reduce) impedance. After more experimentation, I found that the M4s sound best being driven at 2 ohms. While still bright, the trebly-ness in the high end was greatly diminished.

    Starkrimson Ultra - Detailed, smooth, and bright. As with the Mini GaN, musical notes are very articulate and distinct from one another. Great separation of musical instruments. Percussion instruments are rendered in great detail. I was hearing things I hadn't heard in the mix before. I ran this at 4 ohms without the Autoformers and 8 ohms with. At 8 ohms, there was a dryness in the high end and a noticeable ringing to high frequency notes. As with the Mini GaN, I settled in at 2 ohms.

    Benchmark AHB2 - on loan from a friend. The top rated amp at Audio Science Review. Also, detailed, smooth, relaxed. This sounded best at 4 ohms.

    Comparisons
    ----------------

    After hearing all three class D amps and switching among them, I describe them as

    Mini GaN - bright, dynamic.
    AHB2 - smooth, very comfortable.
    Ultra - dark, dynamic.

    These are not meant to be negative or positive, but just relative descriptors. I use the S-30 as my benchmark. While the sound, in comparison to the class D amps, sounds slightly veiled due to the inherent distortion, it feels tonally true, balanced, and natural. Not always so with the class D amps. They, at times, can be more dynamic, more forward, with notes are jumping out of the sound stage. This is a feature or a flaw depending upon your taste and viewpoint.

    After switching back and forth comparing amps, I lived with each one for a few days. The Mini GaNs didn't last long. While overall, the most detailed and lively of the amps, the high end was too dry and bright. Coming from living with the S-30, it didn't sound natural and relaxed.

    The Ultra wound up getting the most play time. It was a just little brighter, clearer, more open than the AHB2 and noticably less strident than the Mini GaN. The AHB2 was very close to the Ultra just a little less dynamic.

    Gary's System
    -----------------

    I was questioning why I was hearing both the Ultra and the Mini GaN as being on the bright side and why I had to run these at 2 ohms with the Autoformers to get the best sound from them. It took both amps to a friend's studio for evaluation in his system. Gary's system consists of the BenchmarkAHB2, a Benchmark DAC 1 preamp, and two sets of speakers, Tannoys in a custom open baffle and KEF R101 monitors. We tried both sets of speakers settling in on the KEF R101s.

    Both amps were much less bright in the high end and we didn't like them with the Autoformers, so we ran them without. While the Mini GaN was much improved, compared to the Ultra, it was still on the dry, treble-y side. The Ultra exhibited all the attributes I have described: detailed, dynamic, well defined bass, etc. We liked the Ultra best slightly edging out the AHB2. As in my living room, slightly clearer and more dynamic. Slightly. These were very close.

    So I learned, my Parasound Halo P5 pre-amp is my most likely source of the Mini GaN and the Ultra sounding overly bright in my home system. I suspect a tube pre-amp, like the Schitt Freya+ or Atma-Sphere MP3 (if I could afford it), would be a great match for the either GaN amp.

    Final Words
    --------------

    Evaluating these amps, often there was no one "best" amp, only tradeoffs. With increased detail came increased brightness. All had well defined bass and big sound stage. Some rendered vocals better. Some rendered mid-tone instruments better. But, better is a subjective term. Ultimately, it comes down to one's taste and what one wants to hear.

    For me, the mini GaN is too bright. The AHB2, too reserved. Living with the Ultra for a few days was a delight. I am considering ordering a pair of the Starkrimson mono blocks, but I need to address my pre-amp first. It's hard to give up the S-30. While lacking many attributes of the newer amps, it still sounds great.
     
    Ted Torres Jr, rickl, james and 8 others like this.
  13. RonN5

    RonN5 Forum Resident

    MV… great review, thanks for being so thorough.

    I’ve heard the P5 many times as a preamp… not using its DAC…and never thought it was bright.

    Is it possible that the brightness was either the XLR connection or the DAC.

    I also have the Sapphires, M3s, and using the Oppo 205 DAC and a Belles tube hybrid preamp I would say the Ultra was detailed and extended without being bright or tiring.
     
  14. MValentiner

    MValentiner Well-Known Member

    Location:
    55406
    Not the DAC as I was mostly going with my TT. I doubt the XLR.

    The Ultra as not tiring or overly bright at 2 or even 4 ohms. I quite enjoyed running it solo for a few days.
     
    ejk1 and RonN5 like this.
  15. orchardaudio

    orchardaudio Orchard Audio

    Location:
    Succasunna, NJ
    Update...

    Reviews:
    @Ted Torres Jr -- here and here and here
    @james -- the review is at this link (post #7)
    @Oliver Meyer -- the review is at this link (post #37)
    @Jaytor -- the review is at this link (post #66)
    @gguy -- the review is at this link (post #111)
    @naru1980 -- the review is at this link (post #147)
    @okc_craft -- the review is at this link (post #165)
    @RonN5 -- the review is at this link (post #192)
    @barondla -- the review is at this link (post #214)
    @DennyCrane -- the review is at this link (post #224)
    @nymarty -- the review is at this link (post #278)
    @MValentiner --the review is at this link (post #287)

    Upcoming Individuals
    1. @OBLuver -- the amp is on the way to this person
    2. @jimbones -- Confirmed as the following person after # 1 in the list.
    3. @Nick BZ
    4. @buckdog58
    5. @Fafan111
    6. @Devg
    7. @thomaskong
    8. @Paul_In_WA
    9. @rhing
    10. @hman
     
  16. orchardaudio

    orchardaudio Orchard Audio

    Location:
    Succasunna, NJ
    @MValentiner, thank you very much for the review.

    I believe I know why 2ohm sounded best to you because with a 2ohm load the high frequencies are actually attenuated (less bright). Here is how different loads act with the LC Filter of the Starkrimson amplifiers. As you can see with 2 ohm load (red trace) at 10kHz there is 1.5dB attenuation and by the time you get to 20kHz it is more than 3dB.

    This effect will be present for all class-d amplifiers with LC filters as they are designed for an 8-ohm nominal load. So it makes sense the same was true for the other class-damp you tried.

    Starkirmson Load Responses (90kHz filter cutoff)

    [​IMG]

    Typical class-d filter for 300 to 400kHz switching frequency (40kHz filter cutoff)
    As you can see the effect at 2 ohms is even more pronounced with a tradditonal filter.
    [​IMG]


    For anybody who is interested the tool that I used can be found here:
    https://www.ti.com/tool/LCFILTER-CALC-TOOL
     
    DennyCrane and barondla like this.
  17. MValentiner

    MValentiner Well-Known Member

    Location:
    55406
    Leo, very interesting. Thanks!
     
  18. DennyCrane

    DennyCrane Well-Known Member

    It came!
     
  19. ejk1

    ejk1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Staten Island, NY
    Happy New Year
     
    orchardaudio and DennyCrane like this.
  20. barondla

    barondla Forum Resident

    Location:
    Missouri, USA
    Cool! How long do you reckon it will take to assemble?
    Thanks,
    barondla
     
    orchardaudio likes this.
  21. DennyCrane

    DennyCrane Well-Known Member

    It came with some parts already mounted and the case assembled, so if I wanted I could probably have it running by bedtime. But I’m going to take some time to look closely and savor the amplifier and PS boards, and also just verify power supplies and amplifiers one at a time. So maybe a day or two just for fun.
     
  22. ejk1

    ejk1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Staten Island, NY
    I believe I saw a video and it takes like 3hrs and 10 minutes to assemble. Well thats if you are Leo
     
    barondla and orchardaudio like this.
  23. orchardaudio

    orchardaudio Orchard Audio

    Location:
    Succasunna, NJ
    Good luck.
     
    DennyCrane likes this.
  24. orchardaudio

    orchardaudio Orchard Audio

    Location:
    Succasunna, NJ
    10 seconds...if you take this approach...
    [​IMG]
     
  25. DennyCrane

    DennyCrane Well-Known Member

    Yeah, it’s going just like that!
     

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