Original/Unaltered "Star Wars" Trilogy on Blu-Ray in 2017

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by Bowie Fett, Feb 23, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    Wasn't there a German DVD with the original theatrical cut of THX1138?
     
  2. hanshotfirst1138

    hanshotfirst1138 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Michigan
    I wish. I’m pretty sure you’re thinking of a VHS. If you’re right, I’d like to know about this! Amazon Instant Video and Vudu both list the theatrical cut, but it’s just the director’s cut.
     
  3. The Doctor

    The Doctor Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philidelphia, PA
    All I know is I want to see an official release of the original Trilogy at some point. You can relabel the Special Editions as "The Lucas Cut." Since nothing in the unaltered originals invalidates the prequels (which are canon) or sequels, the Special Editions can be sidelined as their own special thing. The prequels have a place in Disney's vision as shown by the references to Darth Sidious and having Jimmy Smitts return as Bail Organa and having the lady who played Mon Mothma in the prequels play her in Rogue One. But the special editions don't need to have a place.

    I highly doubt Anakin or Obi-Wan are going to come back as Force Ghosts in Ep IX so you can have Sebastian Shaw as the canon Force Ghost of Anakin Skywalker.
     
    Robert C, aarsonbet and Encuentro like this.
  4. Trashman

    Trashman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Yes, exactly. Think of the original theatrical versions like an original pressing of a favorite LP that has been long out of print and unavailable to fans (and almost impossible to find). Then think of the currently-available versions like you would a brickwalled CD that has been re-EQ'd, remixed, and overdubbed with additional guitar solos that obscure the original solos you grew to love. Even some lyrics were altered, which changes the feel of some of the songs. You long to hear the original LP as you remembered it, but the artist is being stubborn and says the current CD is how he wanted it to sound all along... and that you're being overly sentimental about the album you originally fell in love with. Decades go by without any chance to hear the original album (except for a crummy cassette version that was released long ago using inferior tapes, and is now very expensive on eBay).

    Now imagine some dedicated fans have found a rare original pressing of that LP and are doing a careful needledrop to restore it as closely as possible to how it originally sounded.

    That's what's happening. Except in case this it's a movie, not an album.
     
  5. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Except the record is beat to hell and played on a crappy turntable. Naw, I'm not buying that. You also assume the print has the right timing, and trust me, there's very wide variation in color-timing for prints, particularly from that era. And I worked for Technicolor for more than 20 years; I saw prints that would be 5-6 points out in various directions, even struck from the same high-speed printer. It's a very, very inexact science. Basically, you have no idea what you're looking at. It's all very, very subjective (as is sound quality: EQ, levels, compression, everything).
     
    JuanTCB likes this.
  6. Trashman

    Trashman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    True, trying to get a perfect color match to what was seen in the theaters (or intended to be seen in theaters) is only guesswork. The original laserdiscs offer one suggestion to how the color was perhaps meant to be seen... assuming they were overseen by someone in the know. But at least the fans are starting with prints that have the original edit of the movie, with the most (if not all) of the original elements intact. It won't be a 100% match, but it's much closer than what is officially available on the market today. Besides, I think fans want the original content restored... dialogue, scenes, visuals, music, etc. If the color is slightly off, most people likely wouldn't know the difference. (On the other hand, if the color is shifted as much as is seen in the recent Blu Rays, then fans will notice.)

    Also, these fan restorations are really only meant to be a temporary option, until an officially-available restoration of the original films become available. Many fans have their credit cards ready for that day. Make it and they will buy it! :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
  7. Lance Hall

    Lance Hall Senior Member

    Location:
    Fort Worth, Texas
    So a fan can't improve a print with modern technology?
     
    enro99 likes this.
  8. Lance Hall

    Lance Hall Senior Member

    Location:
    Fort Worth, Texas
    and?

     
    enro99 likes this.
  9. Encuentro

    Encuentro Forum Resident

    Gorgeous work! I wish this restoration were available. Alas, these clips are probably as close as we will get to seeing it.
     
    BeatleJWOL likes this.
  10. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    The original laserdisc film mastering was done by Pat Kennedy at Modern Videofilm in Hollywood in 1982 (without supervision at all beyond the studio rep), and the later letterbox transfer was done by Lou Levinson at Modern about 6 years later, and those sessions were supervised by producer Howard Kazanjian (and I think a post supervisor). Lucas never supervised or approved the home video transfers until 2004, when I did two of them up at ILM. Lucas did always supervise the theatrical color timing at the lab and exercised fairly tight control over that.

    The stuff I see on the so-called "fan restorations" is murky and crushed, which is pretty much the way a theatrical print is. Bear in mind the process starts from the original camera neg, then goes to an IP, then goes to an Interneg, then gets contact printed at high speed to the release print. That's four generations down. There's not enough detail left to work for a digital scan. One reason is that you can't put enough light behind the image, and even if you did, it'd blow out the sensors. (A lot of film scanners are better for negative than they are for positive images.) What might work would be a Vision Premiere print struck right off the original negative, and that could actually look pretty decent... but I don't think they made any of those. (Plus, Vision Premiere didn't exist until the late 1980s/early 1990s.)

    I think if everybody is patient enough, we will see some kind of boxed sets on the original theatrical films within a year from Disney/Lucasfilm. That's assuming the Fox sale goes through.
     
    longdist01, Robert C, supermd and 7 others like this.
  11. Encuentro

    Encuentro Forum Resident

    I hope you're right.
     
    longdist01 likes this.
  12. Solaris

    Solaris a bullet in flight

    Location:
    New Orleans, LA
    I believe everything you say is true, but until we get that box set of the originals, my go-to for Star Wars (the 1977 film) and Empire are Harmy's Despecialized Versions. It's not like I watch them very often, but I like having the option. I own the special edition box, but I find the additions extremely distracting.

    Having said that, what's your impression of the two Vimeo clips above? Do they look "crushed" to you?
     
    supermd and Lownote30 like this.
  13. Dave Garrett

    Dave Garrett Senior Member

    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Warner released the original cut in the US on a widescreen laserdisc back in the day, and I believe it was also released in Japan on laserdisc as well.
     
  14. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    Yes.
     
    Solaris likes this.
  15. hanshotfirst1138

    hanshotfirst1138 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Michigan
    Before Lucas’ “director’s cut” existed, yeah. Now that he has the clout, I’m sure he suppresses the release of the original. Besides, in an age of 4K, laserdisc is a pretty pale way to have to get the version of the movie that you want.
     
  16. supermd

    supermd Senior Member

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    I have Harmy's stuff on blu-ray and it's what I watch when I want my Star Wars fix, but the skin color is off (kinda brownish/dirty) (among other things). I'm looking forward to a dynamite version from Disney.

    Of course, they won't include every single audio mix ever (like Harmy seems to do), so that will get the purists' panties in a bunch. I'd be OK with one vintage audio track and a newly-mixed audio track. Seems reasonable. For instance, Jaws has a new 7.1 and a vintage mono on its BD.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
    The Doctor, Robert C and Solaris like this.
  17. ElevatorSkyMovie

    ElevatorSkyMovie Senior Member

    Location:
    Oklahoma
    "waves hand" This isn't the theatrical cut you were looking for...
     
  18. Encuentro

    Encuentro Forum Resident

    For those who have Harmy’s Despecialized, how do you watch them? Do you just watch them on your computer? Did you burn them to a BR or DVD? Did you go the whole nine yards and print out cover art and disc labels? I simply copied mine to a usb stick that I can plug into my Blu-ray player.
     
  19. malcolm reynolds

    malcolm reynolds Handsome, Humble, Genius

    Location:
    Oklahoma
    I burned them to DVD since I don't have a BD burner for backups. My brother downloaded the three films to my PS3 somehow.
     
    Encuentro likes this.
  20. BeatleJWOL

    BeatleJWOL Senior Member

    Hey, if it's the true GOUT, and it syncs properly, then problem solved. :D
     
    supermd likes this.
  21. The Doctor

    The Doctor Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philidelphia, PA
    I'm no video specialist - can someone explain, as if I was stupid, why they can't just grab an original print, restore it, and release it? Simple question requiring as simple an answer as possible. I understand only the very basics of things like color timing and such.

    Also, in general, when referencing the color timing of movies in general, how can one know what exact shades are "right" when doing a restoration? Like let's say you take the Blu Ray of Gone with the Wind - or Star Wars 1977 - is there any way a restoration can exactly, beat for beat, shade for shade, match what people saw on the screen in 1939 or 1977? Is there some way to keep a record of what exact colors were used and such? Or is a restoration more like educated guesswork?

    Also, why would fans complain about audio mixes? Was there a few different ones or something to the original films?

    I will admit that Harmy's release did look muddy to me but is that perhaps how it originally looked? I mean, you get what I'm saying - is there anyway of knowing for sure what audiences saw back in 1977, 1980, and 1983, in terms of colors and also audio mix?
     
  22. BeatleJWOL

    BeatleJWOL Senior Member

    There's a 70mm mix, a 35mm mix, and a mono mix. All three are slightly different. I believe the 70mm mix was a 4-channel Dolby Stereo mix but don't quote me on that :D

    edit -
    From earlier in this thread:
     
    budwhite and Lownote30 like this.
  23. Solaris

    Solaris a bullet in flight

    Location:
    New Orleans, LA
    I have them on an external hard drive that I plug into the USB port on my blu ray player.
     
  24. bferr1

    bferr1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
  25. bferr1

    bferr1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    MA
    Can you really tell from a small, low rez video like that?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine