Ortofon 2M black: thin sound, lacking power in the low region

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by giacomus, Jun 17, 2019.

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  1. bresna

    bresna Senior Member

    Location:
    York, Maine
    Ortofon recommends a VTF of 1.4-1.7 grams. I found that my 2M Black cartridge sounded a little better as I increased the VTF and I eventually ended up at 1.7 grams.
     
  2. Spin Doctor

    Spin Doctor Forum Resident

    So what do you like about it?
     
  3. bresna

    bresna Senior Member

    Location:
    York, Maine
    I felt that it had fuller sound. As an added bonus, it tracked a bit better.

    One thing I really like about the 2M Black - the stylus shape makes for a very forgiving playback. Any scratch needs to be pretty deep to affect the music.
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  4. jfine

    jfine Forum Resident

    Never could get the 2M black to sound right :shrug:
     
  5. My 2M Black lacks nothing in bass. I'm less than 300 sides of play and could not be happier.
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  6. punkmusick

    punkmusick Amateur drummer

    Location:
    Brazil
    I'm not the greatest fan of 2M Black for some reasons but it does not lack any bass in my experience. On the contrary, mine has a very nice bass reproduction.
     
  7. SandAndGlass

    SandAndGlass Twilight Forum Resident

    I'm with you on that.

    I have the 2M Bronze and I bought the Black stylus to use as an alternate.

    The Bronze is great and the Black is incredible!

    Not only is there no thinness in the sound at andy frequency, it is as big and full sounding as any stylus that I have ever listened to.

    Very organic and natural.

    But something that I was not expecting with the Black upgrade upgrade, was the amount of bass that it presents, again, more and better bass that I have ever experienced with any stylus or cartridge.

    Yet very clean and natural and never bloated.

    I never realized that a record was capable of bass this nice and this deep and powerful.
     
    bangkok19, G B Kuipers and Drewan77 like this.
  8. 808_state

    808_state ヤマハで再生中

    Nothing thin through this guy's setup:

     
  9. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    140pf is high for just the cable. my interonnect cable is ~ 30pf (59 pf / Meter) and the 2M sounded great.
     
  10. giacomus

    giacomus Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Italy
    I understand. but if I had such a cable 100+30pF would be under the recommended range for the 2M black, which is 150-300pF, so with such a cable (for example) I should add capacitance to the input of the pre amp ;-)
     
  11. giacomus

    giacomus Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Italy
    Yes, I am actually applying a VTF of 1.7g because otherwise it wouldn't pass almost any of the 1kHz test tones on the HiFi News Record.
    With 1.7g most of the tests are usually passed. Usually, because from time to time I put on the record test, and the same test track is not passed any more, without any setting changed whatsoever... (apart from room temperature) :-D
     
  12. bresna

    bresna Senior Member

    Location:
    York, Maine
    I have that test record. The torture tests are meant to stress the playback system. Even the most expensive turntable will probably fail some of them. :) That being said, I don't remember having to crank up the VTF to pass any of the test tracks.
     
  13. Drewan77

    Drewan77 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK/USA
    I've used the 2M Black on several turntables & whilst treble response can sometimes be grainy or digital sounding depending on compatibility or setup, deep powerful bass response has always been present (as with @SandAndGlass previous post).

    In my experience, many newer LPs tend to be mastered rather bass heavy, conflicting with the OPs experience. However I agree with others that phono stage settings are likely to be a factor, not necessarily cable capacitance. Interconnect capacitance TT->phono will have most effect on treble response, not bass (unless sharper treble makes bass seem subjectively lower)
     
    SandAndGlass likes this.
  14. giacomus

    giacomus Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Italy
    You mean your 2M Black passed even the final torture track? Mine cannot pass last two ones (+16, +18dB) in 100% of the cases. (With passed I mean played with clear tone, no buzz). So what is your set up?
     
  15. wonky

    wonky Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Which preamp would allow you to do this? All the ones i've looked at, that have variable capacitance loading only seem to work with fixed 47k. Can you name a preamp or company, available in europe, that provides this? Thanks
     
  16. giacomus

    giacomus Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Italy
    The Lehmann Audio Black CUBE SE II provides spare connectors to add either resistive or capacitive loads in parallel to the inputs. It's just an example, there may be others allowing for this.
    That said, I would stick with the values recommended by the designer of the component, i.e. 150-300pF /47kOhm for the cartridge in the subject, unless I am able to personally accomplish precise measurements on my system.
     
  17. Old Zorki II

    Old Zorki II Storm Watcher

    Location:
    near Tampa, FL
    Well, I experimented with 2M Bronze with a similar requirements.. And yet I found 1.8 grams sound the best, recommendations be damned.
    I doubt that 0.1 gram will have a measurable effect on record and cart wearing - but difference in bass response was really significant.
     
  18. thegage

    thegage Forum Currency Nerd

    That test LP has caused much unnecessary worrying about setup. It is not representative of most/all real-world situations. If you don’t hear distortion in normal playback then I would not worry about passing test tracks.

    John K.
     
  19. wonky

    wonky Forum Resident

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Thanks! I will look into the Lehmann.
     
  20. 808_state

    808_state ヤマハで再生中

    You could always have Louis Dorio at Ortofon look it over. He's a pretty helpful guy (got my suddenly cracked 2M Bronze body taken care of out of warranty).
     
  21. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    You don't need a new phono preamp to alter the resistive load. You can just make loading plugs. The total cost is not much at all for the materials.

    See here:

    Parallel Resistive Loading

    Cartridge loading plugs


    Agreed, to a point. Not that hard to run a frequency sweep track and graph it in a program like ARTA, then adjust accordingly and run the measurements again. I would only use a very trustworthy sweep track for this, certainly not anything off the HFN LP. I use the CBS STR100 for this purpose. A fairly flat measuring ADC is also needed, can calibrate in ARTA.
     
  22. Joakim

    Joakim Member

    Location:
    Sweden
    Anyone got a suggestion for a RIAA, say 1500-2000 €?
    Would like to add some some more depth and soundstage if possible. cheers /J
     
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