Ortofon 2M mono cart with 2M black stylus?

Apologies if this is discussed elsewhere but my searching came up with nothing on this. I own both a 2m Black and a 2m Mono cart which are mounted on their own headshells for ease of swapping out. Earlier today I began to wonder if the Shibata stylus of the 2m Black would lift the performance of the 2m mono to somewhere closer to the 2m mono SE version... however, I’m unsure if the 2m mono styluses have different characteristics than their 2m stereo counterparts. Is all the “mono” done in the electronics of the 2m mono cart body or does the cantilever have specific mono compliance? Seems to me this could be a fun and affordable swap between the two carts... but I don’t want to cause damage to either component by attempting this without some outside wisdom first.

 

To clarify, my mono vinyl collection consists of modern mono records - recent Beatles, Dylan, Miles Davis re issues... etc

 

Interested in this as well. I have the Bronze cart and stylus but also a mono cart that came with my 78 stylus.

It would be great if I could use the Bronze on that when playing my mono stuff to take advantage of such a nice stylus. As you point out, the concern is damage.

 

I emailed Ortofon to see if they could shed any light on this, their response is below. I do get the feeling they are trying to protect their market for the bronze and black carts, somewhat discouraging users from upgrading the stylus up from the red and blue versions to their top range diamond cuts. I’ll try the black stylus assembly on my mono cart body today and see if there are any “undesirable results to sound reproduction ”. My suspicion is that it will a good improvement but I’m prepared to be wrong...

Hello,

Physically 2M styli will fit on alternative 2M cartridges bodies, but 2M Series cartridges’ engines, coils and magnets configurations are not quite identical: Red and Blue are identical, so are the Bronze and Black and so are the true mono variants 2M Mono and 2M 78.

2M series styli are interchangeable within the below combinations:
- 2M Red, 2M Blue and 2M Silver
- 2M Bronze and 2M Black
- 2M Mono and 2M 78

Each stylus is made to compliment the magnet and coil configuration of each cartridge body. Using 2M Black stylus with 2M Mono body will not provide the full benefit of either product, and might even provide undesired results, including (but not limited to) differences in output, unbalanced sound reproduction, etc.

Best regards
Katarina H. Nielsen
Ortofon A/S

 

Tried the 2m black stylus on the 2m mono body and it’s performing tremendously! Test record has been the Music Matters version of Coltrane’s Blue Train, an astounding piece of mono vinyl which is bound to show up any “undesirable results” of this combination, for which I’ve noticed NONE. The Nude Shibata stylus tracks beautifully and there’s no sense of a mis match with this. I’d love to try a 2m mono SE to be able to give a true comparison but I’m not going to spend $580 USD to find a few extra % of performance here. I suspect I’m 90% or more of the way to what the SE sounds like with this combination. If I’d know this earlier I’d have purchased the 2M mono 78 version which is 1/3 the price of the 2m mono.

In short, if you own a 2m stereo cart of any type a bargain for a true mono cart is to buy the 2m mono 78 and swap in your existing 2m stylus when you want to play mono recordings. Even the elliptical stylus of the red and blue versions would produce good solid mono sound I suspect.

I’ve had amps with mono switches in the past but nothing beats a mono cart!

 

I’d love to hear your feedback on the same swap in also!

 

I must say the 78rpm stylus is fantastic too, so not just a bargain, as you say, but great for its tracking and sound of those old shellac discs!

I'll do some tests and report back.

 

Thank you. This information I have been looking for.

 

I see no danger involved. Something may or may not sound good, but there is no danger of damage.

As long as you don't use a Shibata stylus on vintage mono recordings and old 45's that were designed to be played with a conical stylus.

In that even, you will likely damage your vintage records with the Shibata stylus.

 

Ortofon 2M mono SE is Nude Shibata.

 

I didn't bother to look, but mono carts that I have always known have conical stylus'. This way they can be safely played on shellac records?

Looking it up I find this information on the Ortofon web site.

"2M Mono SE is the one mono cartridge to play all the old and new mono records in existence.

Ortofon 2M Mono Special Edition cartridge is specifically created as a tribute to the Mono Beatles albums Set. The Beatles have an important place in many music lovers’ hearts and Ortofon is honoured to ensure high quality, modern replay from the new Mono Box Set."

So, if this is the case, what would be the purpose of putting on the Black's stylus on this cartridge body, in the first place?

I'm further reading;

"r/R 6/50µm Nude Shibata stylus - the same diamond as on the acclaimed MC Jubilee, 2M Black and Cadenza Black cartridges. Nude Shibata's slim, highly polished profile allows an exceedingly wide contact area to the groove walls and ensures notably detailed reproduction throughout the spectrum, including even the most high frequency groove information."

I guess I don't quite get the purpose of this thread?

 

This does not mean 78 rpm shellac records but old mono vinyl records.

This information solved my own problem.

I buy Ortofon 2M mono 78 (65um) cartridge and Ortofon 2M red 18um needle. I'm sending a 65um needle to Moscow where it retipping to 25um. The end result I have both options.

 

I want one mono cartridge to listen to all mono records, old and new, but I don't want to shell out for a Black stylus. If I fit a Bronze stylus on a 2M Mono 78, will I also be able to play old and new mono records?

 

I also would like to know the answer to this very question. I just bought a Thorens 126 Mkii as a 2nd TT and would love to be able to play stereo, mono and 78's with as little expense and fuss as possible. The table is coming to me with a tp 16 tone arm and an extra tone arm stem/head shell. I was leaning towards an AT VM750SH on one arm stem, put an AT VM610MONO on the other, and then buy the VMN7oSP 78 stylus to switch out with the 610MONO when needed. But might make more sense to get the 2M mono 78 cartridge and a Bronze stylus instead and have a one size fits all approach.

 

My original post was for the 2M Black stylus as I wanted to achieve a similar level of performance to the 2M Mono SE cartridge. Despite what Ortofon recommend all the styluses are interchangeable and perform well when mixed and matched. I wonder if the best approach for you is to buy the 2M Bronze cart and the 2M 78 cart, thereby giving you great options for stereo, mono (using the bronze stylus on the 78 body) and 78. I think you’ll be pleased with a Bronze stylus on the 78 body - your wallet will be!

 

Thanks - that might do it! Would cost me about $565 and I guess I'd be set.

On the AT side, they publish this chart that shows stylus/cartridge compatibility in their VM line and don't recommend using the 750SH stylus on the mono cartridge to play "vintage mono" I guess because of the groove width. But shouldn't be an issue with modern mono pressings with what little I know of it all and I dpn't have a ton of vintage mono. I could swing the AT combo for around the same price.

So I need to decide what might sound better for me. Never had an ortofon. I did have an AT Art9 on my VPI, but am now using a Soundsmith Paua, though still have the Art9 and think highly of it. Might even switch it back in at some point. Going to have to do some research!

 

Hey, so would I be okay putting the 2m black stylus on the 2m se mono cart? I was gonna buy another turntable, but this might be a better solution.

 

They are both use the same stylus so completely compatible. I’m curious why you ask this, do you currently have a mono se without a stylus?

 

The output of the 2m SE mono cart is always mono and not stereo, why put a 2m black stylus in there?

 

I thought it's only the stylus that is technically mono, since it' split pole I think it outputs the mono signal in stereo.

 

I have my doubts that this is the case.

 

Doesn’t some of the mono performance of the 2M Mono depend on the stylus only having lateral compliance?

 

What about the other way around? 2m SE stylus on 2mblack body?

 

Does anyone have any experience putting an Ortofon Blue Nude Elliptical stylus on the mono cart? This would be most optimal for me $$ wise if it’s recommended.

 

I think you’ll be happy with that. The 78 cart body is identical to the mono cart body, so the most economical way is to buy a 78 cart and discard the stylus (unless you have 78s in your collection), then swap in the blue stylus for performance above the standard mono cart specs.
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