Outlaw RR2160 thread.*

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by BDC, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. Funky54

    Funky54 Coat Hangers do not sound good

    I had a 950 pre and still have a 755 amp. Outstanding products. That 950 sounded way better than anything I tried to replace it with. For two channel it was fantastic. If outlaw had a atmos pre I would buy it. I waited and waited... finally broke down and separated two channel and theater cause everything else with Atmos sucked at two channel.

    I keep watching outlaw to see if they do greatness again for theater. I’ll bet your two channel sounds great!
     
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  2. JackG

    JackG Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    Looking at the Yamaha A-S801 manual, it appears it does apply a low-pass filter to the sub out at 90Hz (which any sub will be able to do anyway), but the speakers are still full-range.
     
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  3. RND4mGuy

    RND4mGuy Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    So, 90Hz and under is sent to my sub and I can further cut using the sub itself to say 60Hz or so? This method doesn't take any strain off my bookshelves does it, as they are still trying to play those lower frequencies? So, I'm getting "double bass" in the frequency overlap.

    Sounds like the Outlaw is the way to go if you're are incorporating a sub in your music listening (which I plan to do).
     
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  4. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
    As a follow-up question, is bass management defeatable?
     
  5. BDC

    BDC Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Tacoma
    Yes
     
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  6. JackG

    JackG Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    Yes - the sub out from the Yamaha is cut at 90Hz but there's no filter on the L/R speakers. Depending on the speakers, 90Hz may well be too high and make for too much overlap so you'd use the sub's own low-pass to lower it.

    The well-done bass-management does set the Outlaw apart for me. It's a given on even entry-level AVRs (all digital, of course) but pretty rare in an analog amp.
     
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  7. Hymie the Robot

    Hymie the Robot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Some subs have high level inputs and outputs that crosses over at a fixed frequency. This was pretty standard in the past. A set and forget connection that I think is underrated. Even less messing with your signal path.
     
  8. RND4mGuy

    RND4mGuy Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    Is that the same as speaker level ins/outs? If so, the sub I plan to use has those. Maybe I would get better sub integration going that route instead of the "sub out" jack.
     
  9. JackG

    JackG Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    I've never been a fan of speaker-level crossover on a sub. High/speaker-level inputs work fine in the absence of pre-outs (increasingly common, it seems), but using the high-level outs puts a bunch of unoptimized (probably cheap) speaker crossover components in your signal path. And the high-pass slope is usually too shallow (6dB/oct) to do much good in exchange for the veiling.
     
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  10. Helom

    Helom Forum Resident

    Location:
    U.S.
    The major weakness of the Yamaha amps is the sub integration options. There's no means of high-passing the main speakers, even on their TOTL amps. They also recommend against using speaker-level outputs, due to the floating ground design. I use the pre-out connections on the 1100 and I had no trouble integrating my cheap but modded Paradigm sub, crossed over at 65 Hz. With my Heresys, the bass of the mains is too fast, which may be a weakness of the sub itself or the connection method.

    The connection limitation will also apply to the 801, except it uses a stand alone sub-out with a 90 HZ filter as already noted. You'd want to make sure to set the sub's crossover lower by a few Hz to avoid filter interaction. So basically, you're limited to a crossover point of about 85Hz, high enough for most systems.

    The tradeoff for this weakness is the amp's near dead-silent noise floor that I've found is quite rare among integrateds.
     
  11. Nonpoint

    Nonpoint Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Raleigh
    Ugh - yeah. Sorry about that. I would say it falls in line with the Peachtree and Rotel for bookshelves (if 100 watts is enough). As other's have noted, it is almost dead silent and very clean at low and loud listening levels. If the bass management was not so primitive (i.e., a low pass filter only and set at 90hz), I would still own it.
     
  12. Hymie the Robot

    Hymie the Robot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    It really depends on the setup. Both can work very well. I could say the same thing about processing a line level signal. Adding bass management and DSP in a simple analog setup can potentially hurt the sound more than a speaker crossover and staying analog through the entire chain.
     
  13. spacecoyote

    spacecoyote Astral Resident

    Location:
    Florence, NJ
    This threads a game changer for me, was about to buy a Marantz PM7005 until I pumped the brakes.

    To those that have the Outlaw:

    Am I understanding correctly, that the rear USB inputs are not powered, i.e. they will not charge portable devices? But the front USB will?

    Right now I'm running an iPhone 4s through its 3.5mm to RCA on the amp I'm about to replace, and figured running it through the USB to the amps DAC would be an improvement over the current configuration.
     
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  14. Nonpoint

    Nonpoint Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Raleigh
    There are 4 in the back: 2 for power, 1 for usb thumb drives, and 1 for computers (also smart phones but they need a separate power source)
     
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  15. PhilBiker

    PhilBiker sh.tv member number 666

    Location:
    Northern VA, USA
    This is why for many of us on a budget, an older higher end A/V receiver in 2.1 mode will in most cases be a much better match for a sub/sat system than even a high quality integrated amp with a sub out. Crossing over the mains so they don't get bass signals not only eliminates possible nulls from multiple bass signal sources, but also greatly eases the load on both the main speakers and the amplifiers. It doesn't take much power to drive frequencies above 80Hz or so. You can get very clean output from the amps and some of the higher end A/V receivers have very good amps, great DACs, and offer minimal processing of pure stereo signals.

    The Marantz SR-7500 in my living room system was $1100 when new, but I got it for $50 on Craigslist because it lacks HDMI. I think the Outlaw would better it, but I don't have the interest (and the fact that it does Dolby Digital and DTS natively is nice for my Blu-ray and HDTV signals going into it). Very happy with the Marantz for my 2.1 system. My Sony DVP-S590's DLNA capabilities give me all the networking I need - listening over that connection right now.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
    JackG likes this.
  16. JackG

    JackG Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    Yeah, great option for sure and far more flexibility than most of today's integrateds. I still have my 2009-ish Denon AVR 4310, a $2000 made in Japan beast of a
    receiver, which used to front my HT setup and which sounds great.
    I like the all-analog nature of the 2160 for my vinyl setup, though.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018
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  17. JackG

    JackG Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    The phone stage on this amp continues to impress. I've been wanting to replace my Denon DL-103r due to its age, but prices have been rising on eBay. So, I put it back on the table today, with my Bob's Devices 3440A step-up feeding the phono input set to MM, and it sounds truly fantastic. I love the fact that this amp needs no add-ons to sound great.
    Well, maybe a SUT for LOMC .:)
     
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  18. DocShipe

    DocShipe Well-Known Member

    Location:
    St. Louis
    First time poster, longtime lurker. Been following this thread for a while and I'm strongly considering getting an Outlaw to replace an older (mid-1990s) Sony receiver that's on it's last legs. Was either going to get the Outlaw or get a vintage Marantz or Pioneer. Also was unsure how the bass management functions. Wasn't planning to add a subwoofer to the system? Would the lack of subwoofer affect the Outlaw's performance? Thanks--I've enjoyed this thread!
     
  19. andy749

    andy749 Forum Resident

    Just bought some Elac Debut B6s. Would this Outlaw receiver be a good match with these? Or, a little "too much" for them (if there is such a thing). Love the looks of that receiver. It just looks like it has to sound great. According to everything I've read it does

    Currently using an older Kenwood 100 wpc receiver. Have a Polk sub too.
     
  20. JackG

    JackG Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    No, the BM does not have to be used. It has a bypass setting for normal full-range operation of the speakers.

    It'll work great. It's got lots of very clean power and low output impedance, so changes in sound due to the amp will be exceedingly low. It also has well-done tone control functions should you wish to change the sound.
     
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  21. gwompek

    gwompek Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    Howdy all.

    I've decided to hold off on my Yamaha/Outlaw shoot out I mentioned a couple of weeks ago. I'm going to make my current system work for the time being. I found a way to hide the external phono stage and dac to make my wife happy. I just got vinyl playback that I am satisfied with so I actually don't want to upgrade for once in my life lol. That said I am still following this thread intently because I can definitely see myself upgrading sometime in the not so distant future.
     
  22. OZmosis

    OZmosis Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Hey Andy - I just got my RR2160 about 1 month ago. I got it specifically to pair with my Elac Debut B6's as I felt like my older 2 channel Denon wasnt cutting it anymore with this newest purchase. I am really impressed with this pairing - the Outlaw 2 Ch amp and the Elacs. I get great dynamics. As you already know the B6's have a lot of bass already.... I too was not immediately considering a sub to add to these bookshelf speakers (on stands away from wall)...but I am giving it some greater thought now. I am currently using the bass management feature of the Outlaw and the middle position 65Hz (no subwoofer added at this point - just the Elacs) and it sounds really good. I am in a pretty large room with suitable amount of reflection but probably could use some additional absorption. Bass sounds full and tight. I am really enjoying this combination. I will let you know when I try the Subwoofer. I plan on using the Outlaw to determine the crossover frequency (switch located on the back bottom of the amp) - and at that point will no longer use the bass management EQ function mentioned above.
     
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  23. andy749

    andy749 Forum Resident

    I bought the Outlaw! Listening right now to George's Brainwashed. I think these B6s are actually getting better the more I use them ha(if that's possible) Sounds very good. REALLY enjoying. I have a sub hooked up and have been kind of experimenting around with the bass mgt switch. I think I have it moved all the way to the left. I'm not that technically savvy so I just have to kind of carefully try different things. This Outlaw receiver ought to last me a very long time. Someday I'll upgrade speakers...maybe.
    P.S. It's like hearing some music for the first time all over again.
     
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  24. JackG

    JackG Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    The speaker EQ feature is so handy, and less intrusive than the bass tone knob. I always have 55Hz engaged when not running a sub. My room positioning doesn't make for much reinforcement of the low end so the EQ is great to have.
     
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  25. OZmosis

    OZmosis Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Congrats! It is exciting to get a new piece of gear especially one that is this solid. I felt like I got a great deal and it has been working like a charm. I have not turned it off since I got it. I will try the powered sub set up this weekend. I want to see what the B6's sound like when they are not having to handle so much bandwidth (which they do really well at their price point for sure). Again congrats on the Outlaw RR2160 - It really has an old school vibe with modern features. For a 2 channel listening amp - it really suites my needs. It was a great purchase - so glad I got it...I'm sure you are too.
     
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