Outlaw RR2160 thread.*

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by BDC, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. xrqp

    xrqp Member

    Location:
    los angeles, ca
    When you press the front "standby" button, it goes into low power (therefore low heat). I measured 2 watts on the Kill-A-Watt meter. No way that will make it hot at all.

    By the way my problem with low subwoofer output i think was largely due to
    1. the very inefficient Ultimax 15" (Dayton Audio UM15-22) in a sealed 3 CF cabinet. The driver sensitivity rating is 86.5 dB 2.83V/1m, and
    2. the mismatches I had on the line level to the sub amp.
    When i ran my iphone headphone jack into the sub amp, and used 500 watts, then it sounded loud.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2018
  2. pathguy

    pathguy Forum Resident

    Location:
    Liverpool, NY
    Had the older RR2150: great receiver and a great company!
     
  3. gwompek

    gwompek Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    I'm still holding my initial impressions. Had a problem with my unit that Outlaw quickly took care of. Waiting on my replacement unit now. Should have it tomorrow.
     
  4. gwompek

    gwompek Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    I have had the replacement unit for a week now but unfortunately the issue I was experiencing with the first unit is now happening with the replacement. This makes me think it's an issue with my setup somehow. The left channel will just go silent at seemingly random times. I notice it most frequently in the early morning. When I first turn it on if the left channel has a slight buzz, that means it's probably going to go quiet within 15 minutes of playing. Quic power off/on resolves it every time but I'm about to drive myself crazy trying to figure out why. After the power cycle the hum/buzz is gone as well and will play fine all day.

    This amp is a beast and really sounds incredible so I don't want to give up on it, but I'm worried about it's reliability. Never had this problem with any of my other amps in the same position. Anyone have any ideas? I have a call in to support waiting on a reply. It's almost like it has problems on a cold start in a 70 degree room, and then is fine after it warms up?

    Also how much hiss/noise do you guys get with the amp on but not playing. My old Marantz was dead silent but on the outlaw I have some hiss ( and slight hum in the left channel as well when that issue is going to occur) with my ear right next to the speaker at normal listening volume. Doesn't bother me, just curious if this was normal.

    Again...this is a fantastic sounding amp. The phono stage is truly great. I haven't spent as much time with the DAC but I will once I get this issue with the left channel resolved.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  5. gwompek

    gwompek Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    Had a long chat with Outlaw support yesterday and they have no idea what is causing this issue. The unit I sent back has tested fine and been playing fine for 4 days with no problem. Clearly there is something in my environment that is causing the issue, but I cannot for the life of me figure out what it is and neither can Outlaw. I've tried new power strips, rearranging the cables behind the amp, etc. No dice. I just don't get why a restart of the amp will fix the problem immediately and then it will not reappear until the amp has been turned off again and left to sit for many hours.

    Outlaw did offer a return if I was unsatisfied, but I told them I really wanted to make it work as I'm very pleased with the sound.
     
  6. JackG

    JackG Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    That sucks, gwompek, I can't imagine what would cause that. Mine is very quiet, cool-running, and rock solid since December. Even the phono stage (which I agree is fantastic) needs to be cranked for me to hear hiss.
     
  7. gwompek

    gwompek Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    Alright so it has been a full week and I can't seem to duplicate the problem again. Think it was down to how I had my cables routed. Not sure why that would cause a problem and neither does Outlaw support. But as that is the only change I have made since the problem last occurred that must be it.

    Now on to the listening! I am auditioning a set of Wharfedale Diamond 225s and so far these seem to be a much better match with the Outlaw in my room than the KEF LS50. I'm finally starting to relax and enjoy what this amp is capable of. I really am enjoying the DAC. To my ears it is at least as good as the Topping D30 or Schiit modi 2. Both budget Dacs, but decent performance and all that I have on hand. And of course the phono stage really shines.
     
    JackG likes this.
  8. Oliver Meyer

    Oliver Meyer Active Member

    Location:
    Virginia Beach
    Day 2 of owning the RR2160. First impressions this is a very very good amp. My previous amp was a NAD 320BEE. This is a big step up.
    Had it on all day yesterday so it's had a decent break in. I was a little disappointed with the bass but today is got more punch especially with vinyl. I ran my Schitt Mani through it to start and it sounded great. Today I've switched to the amp and set it on MC as MM is to low on sound. It's sounds possibly even better than the Schitt. I might need more time on this. I'm a little gutted as I really like the Schitt so I don't won't to give up on it to soon.
    The best thing about upgrading a component is having to go through your entire library of music as it sounds so much better and you notice things that went apparent before.
    This amp has totally changed the sound stage of my music. The septation of instruments the clarity. My foot is tapping along all the time.
    I was contemplating upgrading my B&W speakers but they sound incredible. They needed that extra power to really set them slight.
    I bought mine direct from outlaw and it was a B stock item. It arrived very well boxed and is mint.
    I highly recommend this amp.
     
    DonnyMe, RobCos02330 and The Pinhead like this.
  9. Oliver Meyer

    Oliver Meyer Active Member

    Location:
    Virginia Beach
    Anyone else have a Mani they're using with this amp. I think this internal amp is significantly better than the Mani. Not giving up on it yet.
    Also this amp just keeps sounding better and better.
     
  10. gwompek

    gwompek Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    I don't have a Mani but had an external phono stage that I really loved (Hagerman Bugle) and after a lot of back to back listening I prefer the Outlaw. I, like you, started off using the MC setting instead of the MM but eventually went back to the MM setting. I discovered that the stepped digital volume control was playing a significant psychosomatic role in my thinking that the volume was too low with the MM setting. My older Marantz PM7001 had a traditional mechanical volume control and you only needed to turn the knob a slight bit when switching between analog and digital. However with a digital volume control like this you feel like you are really cranking the amp even though it's probably only a few db difference.

    I am still loving the Outlaw with my Wharfedale Diamond 225. Great combo.
     
  11. JimShy

    JimShy New Member

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Like one other poster, I upgraded from a NAD 320BEE, and am really pleased so far after a week or so of casual listening; it makes my old Mission M73s sing!

    Question: how are people listening to digital audio files on the Outlaw? I've plugged in my phone and tablet to the aux 3.5 jack, no problem, but has anyone been able to connect a phone or tablet to the pc/usb port in back? Anyone using a NAS or other media streamer?
     
  12. newtonty

    newtonty Active Member

    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    I use a chromecast audio connected to the optical port of the Outlaw via a toshlink cable. This bypasses the chromecast DAC and utilizes the Outlaw DAC. My chromecast also has the optional ethernet connection to my switch so I am wireless. I then stream from Tidal, Google Music, or hi-res files on my Plex server controlled from my phone.
     
  13. Octave

    Octave Shake Appeal

    That was a valuable post. I've spent some time with the manual, but I think I am too slow on the tech uptake to have been clear on this. I've been the market for an integrated amp and I think the analog bass management with high-pass is a tipping point for me.

    It might be silly, but I kind of wish there was the equivalent to the Yamaha 801's "CD Direct"/"Pure Direct" for the Outlaw 2160. A kind of bypass that would shut down the tuner electronics etc. That might Placebo Deluxe but there was some reports of noticeable differences by Yamaha owners. And more functionally, the ability to use USB thumb drives larger than 16GB. 16GB max? Are you kidding? What year is this? Also not a big deal, but could they fix that kind of thing with a firmware update?

    Also, I feel dumb asking this, but are analog inputs digitized at all here, or do they remain analog all the way, even through bass management and speaker EQ? ("Analog bass management" should speak for itself, but I still thought I'd ask.)
    Is there any way of testing the 'transparency' of the 2160, or is this indicated adequately in the available measurements, cf. Atkinson's at Stereophile?
     
    JackG likes this.
  14. JackG

    JackG Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    If you plan on a sub, it's a unique feature at this price-point for an analog amp.

    Not sure on the USB limit, I don't use it. I've long felt those "direct" buttons are there to placate OCD audiophiles.

    According to Outlaw (in an answer to a question on the RR2160 Amazon listing): "There is no DSP on the analog inputs - they do not get converted to digital. The tone controls are in the analog realm but can be bypassed."

    Not sure how one would define "transparency", or measure it. I guess FR/distortion is as good a metric as any. In that sense, the transparency of almost any properly functioning solid-state amp is far greater than that of any loudspeaker.
     
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  15. gwompek

    gwompek Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    The 2160 does have the "Tone Off" button which bypasses the eq as JackG mentioned. If I'm not mistaken that performs the same function as a "pure direct" feature by removing the eq and sending the pre-amplified signal straight to the power amp. I think this feature harkens back to the days of noisy parametric eqs from the 80s that left a bad taste in many folks mouth when thinking about any type of eq. This was to placate audiophiles again as Jack mentioned. There is no coloration when the tone controls are in the mix and set to zero. At least to my ears.

    I rarely engage the tone controls but do use the bass management which is a fantastic feature for lower volume listening.
     
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  16. Octave

    Octave Shake Appeal

    I appreciate the replies, guys. I am so close to pulling the trigger. The DAC on the Yamaha 801 is little more flexible (DSD) but I think the 2160 ends up winning for me on the feature front.
     
    JackG likes this.
  17. JackG

    JackG Forum Resident

    Location:
    NJ
    I run a Logitech Squeezebox Touch/Logitech Media Server for Tidal and my local FLAC, etc. connected via coax. I have connected it via USB as well (custom Touch firmware allows 24/192 that way), which worked but the Touch would lose the connection each time I chose another input on the Outlaw so I just use coax now. No real interest in 24/192 anyway.
     
  18. gwompek

    gwompek Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    Take all this with a grain of salt as I haven't heard the Yamaha but here goes:

    I was fairly torn between the 2160 and Yamaha s-801 as well. The main thing that was giving me pause was the superior DAC in the Yamaha. The other was the Yammie's very clean and classic look. In the end I decided to go with the Outlaw for all of the other features. I felt it was more "future ready" in case I ever decided to add a sub or two. A very solid DAC upgrade can be had for not much money these days. However, I am very satisfied with the internal DAC for CDs and streaming from Chromecast. Compared to the two budget, but well regarded, DACs I have (Topping D30 and Schiit Modi2) I cannot discern a difference. Oh yeah have I mentioned the phono stage is fantastic? Because it is! :D

    I really think you cant go wrong with the Outlaw. I'm very satisfied with mine. But if you're not, it's a low risk proposition to buy it and return it if you aren't satisfied.
     
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  19. newtonty

    newtonty Active Member

    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    I too have the Schiit Mod2, and as hard as I tried with A/B testing, I cannot hear the difference compared to the internal Burr Brown DAC. I use and love the dual sub output option with crossover settings.
     
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  20. Octave

    Octave Shake Appeal

    A digression, but only with regard to the relatively restrictive high-pass on the Outlaw RR 2160.
    I am very new to the sub game, to the point where I still haven't started taking measurements with mic/REW; but using my AVR, I've found that there's a really noticeable jump in the quality of integration between a 60Hz and 40Hz high pass with my particular speakers...it seems almost always the case that 60 is frequently too high and the mid-bass (?) seems overwhelming, while 50 often sounds best to me. (For a while I was doing this simply with my sub's low-pass dial, and running the fronts full-range, but it was pointed out to me that this was not a good idea; and I am almost certain that switching my sub from 'In' [sub's onboard low-pass only] to 'Out' [sub receives the high-passed signal passively from AVR] really cleaned up the sound a great deal.)

    This is why I'm a little concerned about the apparent restrictiveness of the crossover on the back of the RR2160. I might have to add an external crossover like Hsu's (unless someone can suggest a better alternative crossover or technique), but that will add $117 to the price tag....alas. And put something else in the signal path. (I am guessing this is one such use for the 'external processor loop', right?)
    I wanted an "all"-analog two-channel solution, but I think I just don't understand what I need well enough to move forward. I probably need to contact Outlaw!

    Oppo 205-->Integra 50.4 [soon to be integrated amp?]--->Philharmonic BMR + Hsu ULS-15 Mk2
     
  21. newtonty

    newtonty Active Member

    Location:
    Cincinnati, OH
    I played around with multiple crossover settings on both the Outlaw and my subs' built in crossover(Rythmic L12 sealed servo sub). You can set the Outlaw crossover to bypass mode which will allow you to control the crossover point on the sub's crossover. For my setup, I ended up using the Outlaw crossover set at 100hz and set my subs' built-in crossover to the same.
     
  22. gwompek

    gwompek Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    For anyone on the fence...Outlaw is gearing up for a secret sale that you need to register for by Oct 12 at 5pm EST. Sale starts at 9PM eastern tomorrow. Not sure what will be on sale, but could be worth a look.

    I couldn't find anything stating that I was not supposed to share this, so here goes:

    Outlaw Audio, LLC : Sign Up to Stay in Touch
     
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  23. xrqp

    xrqp Member

    Location:
    los angeles, ca
    This receiver does not have automatic standby. A significant negative. This receiver wastes 35 watts continuously when it is idle (on but no music). That is more energy than my refrigerator (25 watts continuous equivalent).

    Last week I forgot to put it into standby and it ran for days before I noticed. What a waste. It was pretty hot too.
     
  24. RobCos02330

    RobCos02330 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Mass
    Page 6 F10 ? Keep the master switch on in back and just toggle the switch in front or use the off button w remote.
     
  25. DonnyMe

    DonnyMe Forum Resident

    Location:
    NW Indiana
    Thanks for the heads up. I signed up. From the questions they asked to sign up, my guess would be a home theater receiver or amp.
     

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