Overgrading Discogs sellers....

Discussion in 'Marketplace Discussions' started by sunking101, Sep 22, 2021.

  1. LitHum05

    LitHum05 El Disco es Cultura

    I didn’t think to go to PayPal. Only to discogs. Darn. I really thought discogs would have made good on it. I even got back in touch with them after a bunch of other buyers started unloading on the guy for being a derelict seller. But discogs said they don’t change decisions after processing a request for changing reviews.
     
  2. Rattlin' Bones

    Rattlin' Bones Grumpy Old Deaf Drummer

    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    I am of the opinion that Discogs should require play grading. Why don't they? They'd lose a lot of the sellers who don't want to accurately grade records as to their playability.
     
    rcsrich likes this.
  3. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    It is not that we don't want to play grade records or verify playing condition.

    There are a number of good reasons.
    1. Still sealed records can't be play graded, can they?
    2. Visual condition speaks a lot of the time very accurately.
    3. Some sellers (many) are flipping 100 LPs per month (or more) , doing well, and getting satisfied buyers with only visual grading.
    4. A NM condition play grade could mean that it:
    a: plays exceptionally well, stunning in fact, but quite a few spindle marks on labels
    b: a slight warp that does not affect play
    c: a surface mark going from spindle hole to outer edge that results in no sound problems or issues at all.
     
  4. Rattlin' Bones

    Rattlin' Bones Grumpy Old Deaf Drummer

    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    Visual condition of car speaks a lot of the time very accurately about what kind of used car you're buying. No need to test drive. Look at that paint job. And those seats. Looks great doesn't it. Trust me I sell hundreds of cars a month and all my customers are happy and satisfied.

     
    Dave likes this.
  5. MonkeyLizard

    MonkeyLizard Forum Residents

    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Lately I’ve been getting a lot of records that were graded VG+ or even NM that have audible scratches deep enough to be felt with a fingernail.

    Anybody who buys new records knows that the medium itself is somewhat of a crapshoot, and an absolutely perfect record tends to be the exception rather than the rule, but to me mistakes like that are just careless and unacceptable.
     
    Leugi and rcsrich like this.
  6. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    Just got in two LPs that are in exemplary condition. (I've never used that word before to describe an LP)

    One was graded NM, and I believed it because the shrink wrap was still on the jacket, and there were tons of VG+ copies for sale, and they were not expensive. This one was only $14.99, not enough incentive for seller to lie about it.

    David Ackles - American Gothic, Elektra 1973 - bought after reading very favorable comments in the music forums here. I want a 24/96kHz needle drop on my music server with a 600dpi scan of the cover and insert. This beautiful Butterly Elektra LP will be top quality sound no doubt.

    Then I purchased a magenta-colored vinyl copy of The Replacements - Tim album. I have all of the other Replacements LPs on colored wax including the Twin-Tone era (issued over 25 years ago), and the other Sire albums as well, and extra additional still sealed copies are on my shelf for most of them. This one goes for $77 to $99 in a still sealed condition. And I did not want an open copy unless the "stickered" shrink wrap was intact. This one appeared for $40.00 with shrink, listed as VG+, with no marks at all. I took it seller was not comfortable with listing an open LP at NM, but it seemed like a NM LP. Arrived in Mint or Near Mint, no signs of play. Just what I needed for my Mats colored vinyl collection!

    So anyway, both sellers (quickly) answered my questions about any possible wear or damage to the LPs, labels, or covers not mentioned in the listings. Confirmed that nothing else needed to be mentioned. Both albums are stunning and perfect for my needs.

    One just has to take it slow, ask questions, and if you get an over-graded one, just ask to return it, keep the tracking number, get a refund and continue to shop for nicer stuff - always asking questions if you feel the need to.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2022
    Dave, rcsrich and chazz101s like this.
  7. MonkeyLizard

    MonkeyLizard Forum Residents

    Location:
    Philadelphia
    You’d think so, in regards to asking questions. Most recently on a record listed “Mint, never played”, I asked the seller if it had been opened because a lot of people were complaining about getting warped copies. Through the conversation it was revealed that it was actually a used copy. He made a mistake on the listing but it was only played once and was still in like new condition. Seemed fine so I bought it.

    What was the actual grade? VG

    And it was warped. :confused::help:
     
  8. Porkpie

    Porkpie Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I got a record last week, “NM/NM” which arrived with a fairly aged cover and the vinyl was scratched, fingerprints, and some mark on it like mould. I wrote to the seller immediately (who was pretty odd to begin with and pretended my record would be delivered by wild birds!). The response I got was that it was impossible, they’d sent a pristine record and they wanted to inspect it on return to be sure I wasn’t scamming them! I told them I’d send it back immediately but didn’t like the implication I’d scam a £10 record and they sent back another argumentative reply but also refunded my money.

    They over 100% positive feedback from over 3.5k people. How is it possible??
     
  9. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    The wrong record may have been pulled from shelves.

    What was the other argumentive reply?

    Did they send a refund only after LP arrived back, or before, you imply it was before?
     
  10. Porkpie

    Porkpie Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I asked if it was possible I’d been sent the wrong copy but they said no, it was from their private collection. They sent the refund before and told me not to return it (which I wanted to so they could see the state of it). Needless to say it went in the bin, I wouldn’t saddle my local charity with something in that condition.
     
  11. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    Something is wrong with this picture, and you must sense it as well. Not saying it's you, but no seller can not survive with 100% positive with that many FBs, by sending out over-rated trash.

    Pictures are usually sent to the seller when the condition is disputed, rather than wasting postage costs for the awful LP.
     
  12. Porkpie

    Porkpie Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    I’m glad you’re not saying it’s me because it clearly isn’t. And I offered to send photos but they said they didn’t want to spend any more time on the matter and refunded me.

    Either it was a genuine, one-off mistake or more likely they have had bad feedback but complained to Discogs and had it taken down. It’s unusual to see a seller with 3,000+ ratings and every single one to be positive. The hilarious thing is how the sellers all come out to defend each other if you post stories like this on the Discogs forum.

    Here are photos of the NM record I received:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  13. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    Location:
    City of Angels
    No, I am not seeing sh1tty sellers sending out junk being defended in the forums. You seem to have a thing against sellers there in general.

    I have two accounts now, one of audiophile stuff (gold CDs, SACDs, and DCC LPs), and the other one rock and classical at much lower prices. I could not survive if I was not dealing with nice stuff, and agreed to fix any problems that arise. I had a buyer tell me the discs was bad and needed to be returned and that it look buffed. The disc was not buffed, I would not miss that during the listing. Sure enough, he returned a buffed-up disc in place of the Near Mint one I sent him. So there are bad buyers out there for sure. I'll get this one, as I am going to leave him Neg on the last day one can leave FB, so it can't leave me any back unless he's pretty fast.

    Anyway, I don't get into it with buyers of sellers and like to stay positive. I get my partial refund or full refund and that is that. Or I issue the same. Return for a full refund, or keep it for a partial, (90% want to keep the item for a partial refund).
     
    GimiSomeTruth and chazz101s like this.
  14. Porkpie

    Porkpie Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    And what would be your grading of the record I pictured above?
     
    chazz101s likes this.
  15. Ken Dryden

    Ken Dryden Forum Resident

    After getting scammed by the same Discogs buyer twice who claimed a NM LP was scuffed (about a year or two apart), I have started taking pictures of LPs, including jackets, LP and matrix / runouts to be sure that if a defect is claimed that they send the same item back. I also scan CDs. So far the guy on the West Coast has been the only one who has claimed any issues, I didn't leave feedback for him either time, but I blocked him from future purchases after giving him partial refunds. I don't offer returns on sealed items and say so, because I'm not risking a scammer switching discs on me.

    I like to think that most buyers are honest, but I saw enough scammers in my days as a retail store manager to have my radar up about return requests.

    I think most small sellers won't mind taking time to double check a listed LP or CD to check on condition and briefly play test. After all, items can look NM but have hidden issues.
    Just think of the wonderful days in the early 197os with recycled vinyl, like the first pressing of ELP's Brain Salad Surgery...
     
    Porkpie likes this.
  16. mstoelk

    mstoelk Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Iowa

    I'm curious, maybe it's just the photos, but obviously there is some scuffing on tracks 2 and 3, but it actually looks fairly light, probably audible, but they don't "look" deep enough to be felt, but maybe I'm wrong? It looks dirty, I am assuming all of the hairline squiggles are actually hairs or fibers, and not actually scratches, are am I wrong? Granted it's only two photos, based just on what I can see there, I would think that is a VG record. I hardly think it's deserving of the trash bin. It may sit on the shelf at Goodwill for a little bit but that's as likely due to it being Joan Armatrading, than the condition it self. No offense to you or to Joan.


    It clearly needs to be cleaned. And it almost certainly is not from a "personal collection", of someone who has 3000+ Feedback, perhaps in the loosest of phrasing.
     
  17. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    You can blackball members. I've done so with one.
     
  18. Strat-Mangler

    Strat-Mangler Personal Survival Daily Record-Breaker

    Location:
    Toronto
    That looks like it's been used to play Frisbee in a parking lot!
     
    Porkpie likes this.
  19. Porkpie

    Porkpie Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    The reason I binned it is that there was a mark, the size of a fingerprint, that looked like it waa either mould or some kind of spillage and it’s not fair to pass that on to someone who won’t clean it and could pass to their other records. Also, the long white mark in the first photo was a badly worn groove.
     
    MonkeyLizard likes this.
  20. Ken Dryden

    Ken Dryden Forum Resident

    It is not worth the hassle for me to list LPs if I can’t grade them at least VG+, so anything less will get donated to charity or trashed. The same for low dollar items, if there are lots of listings for a title that are priced very low and NM, they will go to charity. I don’t list anything that I think is too low in quality for my collection.
     
    eddiel likes this.
  21. MonkeyLizard

    MonkeyLizard Forum Residents

    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Seems reasonable. As a buyer the times that I DO go for low dollar items is when the seller offers some kind of flat shipping deal. Sometimes it’s a good opportunity to stack up on some 45s. But yeah as a seller sometimes the VG stuff just sits around, and you won’t even get much for it if it does sell.
     
  22. Streetwaves

    Streetwaves Well-Known Member

    I'd say that close to 50% of the records I buy on Discogs are not properly graded or the wrong pressing. It's frustrating, but I send them back and hope that the seller pays for return shipping.
     
  23. DM333

    DM333 Forum Resident

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I have to agree with this. It’s very very rare I’ll buy off of discogs now. This year i have had 2 excellent orders from there, 1 where the seller claimed it was lost in the post but offered me another copy for £10 more, 1 NM record with an unplayable side 2.
     
  24. theMot

    theMot Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    As I mentioned earlier pictures should be mandatory for anything over $50. Pictures don’t tell you everything but if the seller can’t grade the cover properly what chance do they have with the record? Worn looking spindle hole? No way it’s NM! Pictures of Front/Back sleeve. Labels both sides and a few of the general condition of the record would alleviate a great deal of problems. Discogs won’t do this though because it will hurt their bottom line, less people would buy if they could actually see what they are buying.
     
  25. kwadguy

    kwadguy Senior Member

    Location:
    Cambridge, MA
    Wait...An order where the seller bumped the price £10 and an order where the "NM" record was unplayable. Those are "excellent".
     

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