P-Mount Cartridges

phil, what you're saying is true, but it's the stylus that is the difference. if gpalz wants to spend $100 on an upgrade, getting a fine-line type stylus on his 92e will be even better than getting an at450, as the cartridges themselves are virtually identical. put a fine-line stylus on the 311ep or the 92e and it will outperform the at450 w/its nude elliptical. imo of course.

doug s.

 

Respectfully I disagree. A nude mounted elliptical IME is far superior to a "fine-line" or hypereliptical bonded. I am using the nude mounted 450 and a well regarded bonded hypereliptical from Pfansteihl. The nude mounted elliptical is a better sounding stylus. I posted samples earlier in this thread, though they are probably expired. The nude mounted stylus on the 445E/U has similar IG and tracking performance to my 440MLa.

 

So ATN3472VL vs. ATN3472SA

Does anyone have an opinion as to whether it's the extra $100 for an SA at $180 vs. the VL for $80? Is there really that much of a difference between the 2?

I'd be using this in either a Audio Technica 1001 or AT311EP cartridge.

Thanks!!

 

Anyone? Help!!

 

All that LPG house brand aftermarket styli are bonded styli AFAIK. I wouldn't pay $180 for a bonded stylus. If you just need a new stylus for a Pmount cart, I'd get something cheap.

If you're looking for long term upgrades, I'd save money to move away from a Pmount TT. Pmount options are slim these days and a TT that takes a standard 1/2'' mount cart will offer you far more choices and flexibility.

 

my opinion is somewhat in the middle. i picked up a nos at450 on ebay for $60 shipped (still available, at $65). this is an excellent performer; installed on the turntable i got for my daughter - empire 598 - it gives up little to my oracle mkv w/lomc, etc...

not the at450e comes w/a nude elliptical. not sure whether either of the linie contact styli would be an upgrade, but i agree i wouldn't want to be spending $178 for one if it's bonded, not nude. i might take a chance on the less expensive line contact stylus..

oh, here's the ebay at450:
AUDIO TECHNICA AT450 UNIVERSAL phono cartridge elliptical diamond NEW RARE! | eBay

doug s.

 

Thanks but I already know all this. Right now I’m still happy with my early 90s Technics SL-BD22 TT. Just looking for the best stylus I can use on my 2 cartridges. I have both the at311ep and 1001

 

Doug thanks for the link for that AT450. I think I might just get that. That way I am getting a new cart and killer stylus for less than the replacement stylus from LP Gear.

 

I have one of these as well, got it new for $45. It is very good.

I don't use mine any more, moved away from p-mounts, but if I needed a p-mount I wouldn't hesitate to pay $60 for one.

 

Is it true that the higher the number the better the quality is with the ATs? Like AT311 VS AT450 the 450 is better?

what about the 1001?? I have one but it needs a new stylus.

 

No, that does not apply. AT sold that cartridge body with approximately a bazillion model numbers. Or really, probably a hundred model numbers, and also they provided it to other turntable manufacturers with the TT mfr's brand on it.
But AT did have a few organized series of these. One series was the 1001 series. I think there were 1001, 2002, 3003, 6006, 8008 in that series, from .6 conical to Shibata (I think) on the 8008. Each higher number in this series had a "better" stylus type. Any of the styli will fit, and work with, any of the bodies. And the higher number bodies in this series were slightly better internally, with slightly better separation with slightly lower output. Your 1001 originally came with the .6 conical as it was the lowest version in this series. The AT450 (I THINK) is equivalent to the 3003 in this series, with the nude elliptical. And they had other series where higher numbers meant a step-up stylus and cart within the series. The AT311 was equivalent to the 2002, regular bonded elliptical, I think.
But you can't simply go by the number between the different series. The 311 was in a different series than the 450, and different series than the 1001 series.
The new old stock AT450 at that price is a steal. Nobody including AT makes a nude elliptical for this cart body anymore.
I kind of agree to not get the bonded Shibata, at that price, on this body, either of the ones you have, but still it is the best you can get for that cart body now.

 

JohnO thanks for all that info. Good stuff. I just ordered that AT450.

 

My next question would be how does the AT450 rate against a Shure M92E?

I’ve read mixed reviews about the M92E over the years that’s why I never got one. They’re discontinued but are all over eBay right now at a decent price.

 

The AT450 has the nude elliptical (two steps above basic bonded conical) and a body two steps above the base. The M92E was their basic P-mount, their base body, with a bonded elliptical. Roughly equivalent to the 2002. By specs, easy choice, the AT450 is better. The nude elliptical is a significant step up.
I'm not knocking the M92E, I have one, somewhere, I don't use it but it is OK for what it is. Shure also had step-ups of higher P-mount carts that looked the same shape, different colors, with better styli at higher prices with model numbers that made no sense.
The confusing model numbers of both brands were deliberate, partially to confuse end customers, but that is another story. And, both AT and Shure wound up accidentally giving the exact same model number to completely different cart bodies, because they couldn't keep them straight either!

 

I suggested the AT450 earlier in the thread. I use it on my Technics SL-QL1. I liked the original so well, I bought a couple spares from the same ebay seller above. They were $15-20 cheaper then.

 

Wow. The SL-QL1. I had one when it 1st came out. It was cool at 1st but the novelty of it wore off quick for me. The cueing was weird. I prefer to hold the tone arm.

 

i was going to suggest this, but i figured if you wanted, you'd just do it. because, i suspect this nude stylus is as good as the bonded one at $80, and if it's not as good as the $180 stylus, i suspect anyone would be hard pressed to actually notice a significant difference. but maybe not, who knows?

and as i said prior, even on a standard non p-mount arm, it's still a great cartridge. i missed out on 'em when they were $45, but $65 is still a great deal, imo.

doug s.

 

Horses for courses, my friend. I've had mine since around 1985. Loved it then, love it today. Also love my more recent 1210GR so I've got the best of both worlds.

 

Thanks again for all the great tips. I will report back about AT450 when it gets here this week.

 

looks like the tips helped you buy a nice *tip*...

doug s.

 

catching up on one of my favorite threads.


You are in for a treat. The 450 nude elliptical is an absolute delight. See my avatar for a picture. Still love mine.

 

So the AT450 came today. I will compare it tonite to my current installed cart which is an AT311EP.

The biggest problem I am having right now is what LP I want to use to do the comparison.

I've narrowed it down to 5...

1 - Alice Cooper - Love It To Death - Rocktober black and white vinyl
2 - Funkadelic - Let's Take IT To The Stage - original Westbound/20th Century pressing
3 - ELP - Tarkus - original US Cotillion pressing
4 - Santana III - original US Columbia pressing
5 - Savoy Brown - Raw Sienna - original US Parrot pressing

 

Now that I think of it I'll prob use Rival Sons Feral Roots. It's such a great sounding record.

 

So I wound up doing only 2 tests with the 450 vs 311ep none of which were any of the above.

1st I picked Be-Bop Deluxe Futurama US Harvest pressing. I picked this because it has a lot of dynamics and stereo panning in the 1st song Stage Whispers. With the 311ep the stereo sound field is distinctly separated and panning is very obvious. With the 450 it was actually less dynamic and more tight sounding with more bass. I hope that description makes sense. I was a little disappointed as I was expecting the 450 to open things up even more but this was not the case.
Next up was The Stooges Fun House Rhino reissue. This sounded AWESOME with the 450 compared to the 311ep. Nice heavy bass. Also it seems that it had less stereo separation.
I only compared those 2. After that I stopped switching it back and forth.

After that I played Jeff Beck Wired late 70s Holland pressing. This also sounded amazing with the 450.
Next was Thin Lizzy Johnny The Fox US RCA Club pressing. The 450 sounded absolutely amazing.
Next was King Crimson Larks' Tongues In Aspic US mid 70s pressing. I started with side 2. Easy Money was absolutely amazing. That song is so dynamic in the way it builds at the end. When I get more time I will def be comparing the 450 vs the 311ep for this one.

So what it seems the major diffs are between these 2 is that the 311ep has better stereo but is less bassy than the 450. The 450 seems to tighten up the stereo and has more punch and bass. In conclusion I guess I can say I am not completely blown away by the 450 although it sounds great for certain records. I'll leave it as my main cart for now.

 

The 450 will open up, particularly the channel separation, after about 20-25 hours of play.