PAL to NTSC conversion - software based

From what I've heard, this is generally expensive as hell to do in order to get acceptable results. It seems the cheaper programs that do it yield a questionable outcome.

The reason I bring this up - I have a few PAL titles that I'd like to be able to watch on a standalone NTSC player that doesn't do conversion. The current NTSC to PAL standalone unit that I have access to (that *does* do conversion) looks like crap - improper anamorphic resizing, garbage picture. It would be nice to somehow get these into the NTSC domain without the above issues. But again, I've heard there are other issues at hand when attempting to do it through software and re-burning. (frames dropped, etc.).

Let me ask this: When I play my PAL discs back on my computer DVD using WinDVD they look beautiful with no real issues to speak of. One can even slow the whole shebang down 4% to overcome the PAL film transfer issue and believe it or not it actually almost pulls it off - I prefer the tiny amount of video/audio issues induced vs. the sped up, higher pitched voices of the "non-corrected" versions. So...could a person take the analog composite video output of a computer video card (it is NTSC at this point, post-conversion, correct?) and pump it in to, say, an NTSC standalone recorder via the analog inputs? Would this yield fairly good results...at least similar to what I'm watching on my computer?

Dave

 

You need to download DVD Decrypter to rip the DVDs, and then go to videohelp.com and try and find appropriate software or better yet, get a DVD player that allows you to hack the firmware or remote control program to make it Region 0 and videohelp.com can help you there. I have an Apex 3-DVD changer that I have made Region 0 with a firmware hack that I got from a pawn shop and 2 of my local pawn shops have the same player.

 

Like I mentioned Brad, I already have a Region O standalone unit that does this - I just wasn't happy with the picture quality of the onboard PAL to NTSC conversion. Eventually I will probably buy a better player...but I was looking for another temporary option.

 

You can also hook up a computer to a TV if you have the right cables

 

That's kind of where my question was going. That is, would the analog output of a video card pumped ino the analog input of a standalone DVD recorder, TV, whatever, yield acceptable results vs. trying to do the conversion via software, or using a player's onboard PAL to NTSC convertor?

 

The computer hookup method may be more acceptable to you.

 

I do it the other way (NTSC to PAL) by plugging my computer to my DVD recorder via S-Video and find the results work just fine for me.

Mart.

 

I sure would not want to downconvert PAL anamorphic widescreen (576p) movie to NTSC (480p). HTPC hooked up to an decent HD monitor will play both formats with ease and should give you much better PQ with native PAL material.

 

I'll just be playing on a standard TV monitor (not a huge "monster" either), so I'm not *too* concerned overall with the 576 to 480 conversion. I mean, that's what my standalone DVD unit is pretty much doing now.

I think I am going to give the computer S-Video out a whirl and see what that looks like. Thanks for all responses!

Dave

 

My suggestion - rip the PAL DVD files to your computer. Import the mpegs into a capable piece of software to do the conversion. Some editors will do this as well as freeware utilities. Then burn the converted mpegs as an NTSC DVD. I've never tried this yet myself, but I came up with this idea several months ago to convert some PAL material. Good luck!

Derek

 

Derek's suggestion may work - software such as Canopus Procoder may be able to do the conversion of the ripped files. Procoder is one of the best video transcoders out there - there is also a lite version available I think.

What about getting a TV that plays both NTSC and PAL signals? I'm not sure if that is an option for you, but in many parts of the world (including Australia) most TVs sold will handle both PAL and NTSC, and there is no need for in-player conversion. At least, I've always assumed it works that way here....

 

Or even better, a DVD player that can be switched between the two. My Bush DVD player has that sort of function and its inbuilt convertor is pretty nifty particularly from PAL to NTSC. NTSC to PAL is slightly worse due to the higher framerate needed for NTSC.

Ken

 

One question: what does zone '0', or any other zone for that matter have to do with the signal being PAL or NTSC (basic video system for each of the said zones notwithstanding)?

I believe that making a DVD zone '0' will not change the video information from PAL to NTSC or vice versa.

 

Procoder is going to take a really long time. I've heard somewhere close to 24 hours on your typical home pc.

 

Not a damned thing.

 

That's because your monitor isn't restricted to either the refresh rate used in PAL(50 Hz) or the rate for NTSC(60 Hz). Your monitor can also handle the increased resolution of PAL, while your NTSC TV will be unable to handle either of these aspects. Strictly speaking, your computer monitor is neither NTSC nor PAL.

DVD players that can correctly convert 16:9 PAL for a 4:3 NTSC TV are available very cheaply(I paid $40 for a Malata 393A as a backup player, and I even got a couple for friends as presents), and I can't help but think that getting one would be either the cheapest or least-labor-intensive solution - but most important, it'll produce the best results with the fewest compromises. Any player that uses the Mediamatics chipset will do the job, and a player that also features video filters for film- and video-based material would be even better, while you have a SD TV. Here's a link to a DVD player selector to search the features of various DVD players (although the prices listed ceratinly aren't the lowest available).

 

TmgpExpress does this very nicely and has a real easy wizard.

 

Ultimately, I think that was most likely always going to be the route I ended up taking. I just got so discouraged when I saw what this current player I have access to (a Cyberhome) did to the picture. It was literally so bad that I thought the unit was defective...maybe it was.

Another thing that I have to admit getting spoiled with, is the PAL TruSpeed feature in WinDVD. It works very good at all but eliminating one of the biggest issues for me...the speedup. How hard would it be for a standalone DVD player to include something like this. A chip that does it (in the digital domain) before conversion to NTSC. Would there be any limiting technical factors that prohibit this?

 

David, what the PAL TruSpeed feature does is correct (although in my experience, not too well) the difference in speed between the frame rate of NTSC and PAL. See, for us who are in a PAL-using country all DVDs in NTSC sound faster than they really are, so men's voices will appear to be thinner.

Does this feature also do the opposite in the case of watching PAL video in your case? I would think not. This is why it is called PAL TruSpeed as it only has to do with converting the NTSC speed to PAL-compatible.

 

Hi Metoo - From what I've been told, and it's a confusing issue, *any* PAL transfer of a film-based source will result in the 4% speedup. Though, I've heard in DVD mastering in can be digitally compensated for at that point if the authoring house chooses to.

Normally, when I play back a PAL DVD transfer of a film, its speeded up 4%. For example, I have a movie that normally runs 103-104 minutes on US pressings I had (the original "Bedazzled" -VHS, Laserdisc), and now it's approx 99-100 minutes (with no edits of course) in it's PAL DVD pressing when I play it back on my computer. As a result, the motion is slightly quicker and voices are sightly higher pitched. TruSpeed digitally time-stretches/slows down everything back to 103-104 minutes and digitally returns the voices to their normal pitch. On the latter, I thought it did an excellent job (it was unlistenable to me with the higher pitched voices). On the former, I thought maybe I detected a tad more flicker upon playback, though I'm not sure about that.

 

Better and simpler is to get a multistandard tv set. They respect the original 50 or 60 Hz and just change colour carrier info.
True conversion means a big loss of quality. You need professional HW for a good work.
I still owe a SAMSUNG multistandard VHS player and recorder who virtually handle all systems, paid a lot 10 years ago who referred from a costier panasonic.
However there's some remaining piece selling from
http://www.planet3000.com/CVCR_SMSG_sv-5000w_DTL.shtml
only for who own a big VHS multistandandard catalog....

 

I've never seen a PAL DVD that compensates this. Sometimes they do a pitch correction for the audio part, but it runs still faster, anyway.
The general problem is:

film has 24 frames per second
PAL has 25 frames per second
NTSC has 30 frames per second

Film and NTSC are so far apart with their framerates, that something has to be done, when converted. There are conversion schemes, that repeat 6 frames of the film in an specific order, where all the motion stays still fluid. Original PAL material to NTSC or vice versa works the same way. 5 frames are repeated - or in the other way ommited.
But from film to PAL is only 1 frame difference. You simply can't repeat only one of the 24 frames per second without losing fluid movement. So the only way is to speed up the whole film by the factor 25/24, which is 4%.
Just to clarify that.
All newer TVs in Europe can play PAL 60, which means PAL color, but 60 instead of 50 half pictures. And the DVD player only does the necessary color conversion, not the frame rates...
So I'd prefer to buy a film like The Last Waltz in NTSC, even here in PAL land, because I get the original pitch.

Martin

 

I agree - I would prefer to watch any film-sourced material in NTSC just to avoid the 4% speedup. It's a drag, because in Australia we're PAL, and there are some discs I just won't buy because of the speedup - I won't buy any PAL music discs for example (I mean, if my turntable was 4% too fast or slow, I would trade it in...).

I read on another forum ages ago that there are DVD players that will do on-the-fly speed correction for PAL discs - like what WinDVD does in software - but the poster was not forthcoming on what brands/models could do this. Does anyone here have any idea?

 

I realize the speed question, I thing is present in the musical stuff (half tone up) but NTSC has to deal with 3:2:3:2 imaging (hope that music is kept costant...) who corrupts image in another way. It's seems me that the road for correct cinema reproduction is still to be made.

 

Ezio, you are quite right - NTSC-to-film transfer does have the problem of "judder" due to the pulldown business. I do notice the jerkiness of motion in some panning shots on NTSC DVDs. However, I can live with that, knowing that the video is at the correct speed.