Part-Time Audiophile Best of the Year Awards

Let's steer this thread away from high dollar cables and (I being a coal miner in Wyoming) start talking about clean coal and the energy sector.

But really, high priced cables is never going to be an unheated thread.

 

Can't see why. Just requires some respect and ability to remember that somebody else's choices do not impact yours.

It's yet another audio topic requiring a certain level of faith. If some millionaire wants to spend 300K on cables, how does that affect me? I can inquire and get his POV on what he thinks but in the end, it doesn't detract from my choices and the enjoyment I get from them.

If some people take it personally, have fragile egos, and/or are the types who need to be right and, in their narrow-mindedness, cannot fathom a concept such as subjectivity, then yes, I agree, the conversation will invariably lead to feathers getting ruffled and lots of sarcastic barbs. But that's most people, in my experience.

 

well, kimber puts it right up front (and the uber spendy tweeko cable "manfs" don't know what it is...)

I agree the consumer can't use impedance (except to establish a rank order test) - an engineer can tho...

clean coal - if it ever happens - will still get stomped on by gas (and later on, PV)

 

100% agree.

I was really disappointed to read Herb Reichert in a recent Stereophile write about blowing off a reader at a show because "he was there to work". Um, who do you think you work for, Herb?

 

Don't dilute yourself, too much easily retrievable high quality coal. And if you think natural gas is a safe alternative, you've been drinking the kool-aid.

"and later on, PV" what's this?

 

That's fine, however nothing in my message was specific to your list, nor was it intended to be. Other than your car analogy (which I still disagree with) I was aiming at the overall picture. However regarding the other comments quoted above (since you raise them)... I don't doubt that there is something real behind all of the components and accessories on that list. I doubt that it's "science" in all cases: some engineering, some design, some marketing, for sure. (I spent 31 years working in two major science and engineering organizations; force of habit to distinguish between science and everything else. ) I did not state whether I agree with the "pricing at the upper end" - but for the record I have no problem with it. Whether that pricing is truly reflective of performance: I'd say it's probably not the dominant factor. I too would not spend $95k on any audio component. (A car, maybe.) But as I said, I don't begrudge anyone who can afford to do so doing so. But if that buyer then needs to invent all sorts of phantasmagorical verbiage to then describe how wonderful that gear is in order to lord it over those who don't, then I might open a dialogue with him about it. And by the by, I once did exactly that with a fabulously wealthy golf partner and fellow Porsche owner, both about his car (which I had to admit was incredibly better than mine ('88 928S4 vs. Porsche GT: no contest!) and his new home theatre (which was not) both of which he paid at least an order of magnitude more for than I did for mine. I too have heard some incredible demos - of gear at all price points. Again, I never talked about limiting anyone's freedom to buy crazy expensive gear.

So I'm happy to say that we appear to violently agree on several points.



Jeff

 

I have never much cared for these lists just like Stereophile because the actual GOOD sounding gear on this list become sullied by being associated with the overpriced, over hyped rubbish sounding stuff on the list. Its the same for Stereophile's lists. Stuff that sounds completely different getting class A. Good for the manufacturers but not the consumers IMO. And if the retort is that it's all subjective and a matter of taste then everything sgould be class A and everythinf should make the list.

 

well, the Yggy and LS50's ought to make any list for SQ/$$

 

I'm curious, what items on the list do you think is "overpriced, over hyped rubbish sounding stuff"?

 

I would put Kimber in the "uber spendy tweeko" category ($6000 for a 2 meter pair of interconnects, $24,ooo for an 8 ft pair of speaker cables). Not the most expensive, but pretty well up there.

 

huh - didn't know they were charging that much

I got my 4TC's for free with a pair of Vandersteens from the dealer...

 

That does not make one iota of sense. People read these lists to specifically to get the subjective assessments of gear auditioned by one or very few people. The very nature of these lists encourages the personal tastes of each individual involved to come through by way of results.

 

well, consider taste itself - people differ in what they like to eat, but there are still things that no one likes to eat, and other things that will kill anyone who eats them

 

@Richard Austen
Richard, as I look at this list, it is quite a bit different than ranked lists with a hierarchy and grades that purport to distinguish components by class. The trouble I have with the Stereophile list is that it is ostensibly based on reviews, past and present; something that was reviewed as "astounding" three years ago may not be by today's standards, and that doesn't necessarily mean the "better" component is the more expensive one. But, their one list of Recommended Components purports to do just that, and leaves out as many components as are included.

I read this list as a "Best of the Year" from a variety of reviewers- something that the other magazines, including Stereophile also do (as far as I know- I haven't read Stereophile or TAS in quite some time). It's interesting to get different reviewers' impressions of significant products from the past year, with different perspectives. I don't put much weight on a lot of it, but there are occasions when a product seems to be highly regarded, almost uniformly, by the industry.
None of this has anything to do with what I'd buy at this point in my life; it is, to quote Fremer, "informed entertainment." Like looking at a list of the year's best movies-- things are often left out, or under-rated, but if the subject matter is interesting--and presumably it is to many of us here-- it makes for some good reading. I don't think it purports to do more than that, but maybe I'm wrong, or too jaded to believe anybody rushes out to buy something based on a few glowing words in a magazine or website. (Though it can be a starting point for someone to do more research).

 

a better question is how any reviewer can rank components without doing a direct comparison, side by side

much less a listening test that removes placebo effects

 

An even better question is: Who gets to pocket the ad revenue from that site? The ads are so thick, it's difficult to separate ad content from "editorial" content. If sending traffic from this forum to that site generates revenue, that should be disclosed explicitly.

 

Like most sites, the banner ad revenue is paid per month on an x-month basis. As far as I know, we don't get paid by traffic. Like most sites, however, as traffic rises so does our ability to raise ad rates as we are getting more "eyeballs". Nothing out of the ordinary there.

We do separate reviews from advertising. If a manufacturer wants to advertise, our publishers handles that, typically not any of our two editors. The gear selected to review is largely based on what we get intrigued by at shows. For me personally, Scot has been very supportive of what want to review. I think curiosity about a product makes for a better review as well.

 

For the most part, we don't do ABX testing at Part-Time Audiophile. We are doing subjective listening like most sites although we do take into account measurements and reference recordings where possible to corroborate our impressions.

If you want a purely objective magazine, then you have to go elsewhere.

 

That's a bit unfair as those prices are for their reference "Select" line which is very good.

Ray and team have always had super-affordable entry level cable that sounds damn good. I got started on better cable with 8TC for speaker wire and entry-level copper Hero interconnects.

 

That was kind of my point. Although your article mentioned the top-of-the-line Nordost loom, it seemed you were recommending their more modestly priced products; likewise with my post about Kimber. And for some "know little (or nothing)" to suggest that cable manufacturers don't know the electrical characteristics of their products is a bit disingenuous to say the least. Doubters might head to the Shunyata or Cardas sites and some of the links there if they want more measurements from high-end manufacturers.

 

Just so I'm following you...

• The site is for-profit
• You're directing traffic from this forum to that for-profit site (irrelevant if it hasn't yet turned a profit)
  
• It's "nothing out of the ordinary" to do this. It's just how for-profit audiophile "reviews" work. Leveraging a public site funded by member donations is totally acceptable.

 

Well those $300,000 cables aren't going to sound very "interesting" on my modest set up. The whole point of everyone's argument, I might assume, is that most of this gear is way out of league for the casual audiophile here on this site.
Not that it is not interesting to dream big, but apparently it is inciting outrage more than awe and wonder, as is apparent from the comments.

The same with the whole idea about the high end cables, true they may or may not improve sound, but every time the subject is brought up on any audiophile site it is just a hot button issue which the mod's should just shut down.
Same goes if someone is to ask questions on a music forum such as rate your music, why in the heck does Radiohead have the #1 album of all time? Shut down immediately.

Some topics will never be agreed upon, no matter what points either party brings to the table. Simple as that.

 

Damn, just damn! The fun and enjoyment is being sucked out of this thread. I direct folks to this site from other sites and I direct folks from this site to other sites. For example no one ever complains or reprimands us when we direct them from this site to another to purchase something at a discount.

M~

 

Advertising is a fact of life; one nice thing about Website ads is that they are easy to ignore, unlike TV ads, for example. And nowadays many ad banners are directed at the specific viewer, and based on that individual's previous purchasing and browsing history (ever wonder how Google makes its money?)

 

I am baffled by this response as I did not suggest at any point that cable mfrs don't know the electrical characteristics of their products.

As for Shunyata and Cardas, I've been the earliest and most active person linking to their measurements here on the Hoffman board.