Parting with CDs

All good points, but it is funny to see people claim the moral high ground because they prefer to stick a plastic disc in a player and hit play instead of hitting the play button on Spotify. Whether you listen to digital files on a disc or via streaming, you’re still a passive consumer of music. Not so long ago, the only way someone could hear music at home would be to gather around the family piano in the living room or to play a guitar on the front porch and sing for themselves. The most profound musical experience I’ve ever had was when I played in a band when I was younger. Was I a great musician? No, far from it, but making music with other people was a more profound experience than any CD or LP I’ve ever listened to. If you want to take some snooty “I’m a better music fan than everyone else” stance, learn to play violin and join an amateur string quartet, but please spare me the “I’m better than you because I own 2,000 CDs and you listen to the same music on Spotify” argument.

 

But one way fairly compensates artists, allowing them to continue making music, and one doesn't.

 

streaming? cds don't. not signed bands anyway. you get 14% of profit after all costs, advertising, pr, video, tour support etc, etc.
no bands are making money on cds, especially second hand cds. small bands selling cds direct to people would be making a profit, but they wouldn't be selling millions.

 

Leave BandCamp out of this.

 

I do think streaming devalues music, but obviously an explanation of such a statement is required, since it can easily be misunderstood. I think streaming erodes the personal connection one has with the music. Every part of an album release is part of the package - the cover, the ads, the inserts, the label design, the credits and so on. The tangibility of it all.

For me, buying an album is an event. Before buying an album I'd of read about it, maybe enjoyed other titles in the artists catalog, heard some part of it etc. In other words, there's a process involved. At the point I actually buy something then a commitment is made. I've now spent hard earned cash on a specific recording, and I'm giving it house room. In buying an album I'm saying "I like what I know, now it's time to spend quality time together." A mouse click just isn't the same for me.

Now, I grew up in times where buying an album a week was a big deal, let alone more than that. So you really did have a deeper appreciation for what you were getting. You couldn't afford to buy into things you wouldn't enjoy a multiude , because money was short. This is less an issue these days, and I'm buying 4, 6, or 8 CD's weekly on a regular basis. The basic fundamentals are the same though.

Albums were always a statement by the band, whether it be some bit of classic prog with integrated songs, or simply a line in the sand about what a band sounded like at a particular time. Keep in mind, it's all about albums for me. I've no interest in singles, or individual tracks. I listen to entire albums, all the way through. Hunting and pecking songs isn't something I do, or am interested in doing. An album wasn't/isn't only a collection of songs - it hung together. For me, if I'm hearing say, Bowie's Rock and Roll with Me, then We are the Dead had better come next......

As to the value of music - in the past I could always hear some of the music I liked on say, radio. But selecting the album, buying it, playing it at home at the time I wanted, imbued it with more value. I'd overhear it on the radio, I'd fully engage with it when I purchased. I'd say Streaming is more akin to radio, albeit you're clicking on a track or album, likely aided by some algorithm.

Finally I have two points. Firstly, if you're getting on a bit, like myself, then you'll likely have amassed a record collection. It's a lifetime of choices or options right there. Why would I give that up? To what benefit? I have limited time to listen, and more music than I need already, so why add a million new songs/bands/albums? I already have a lot of great, great, music. I've lived through format changes, and honestly the same old arguments get made. But those who held on to their Vinyl aren't sad they did.

Secondly, generationally things are different. If you don't have a good collection, then Streaming might feel as though you acquired one instantly. Personally it's more akin to being handed your own radio station where they only play the songs you like and choose, but perhaps that's just me. I can see how things may appear different to younger folk. However, that doesn't make us older guys wrong, or crazy for wanting physical product.

Always keep in mind - businesses don't exist to do what's right, fair, reasonable, or to the benefit of their suppliers. They exist to make money. Spotify could change radically tomorrow. I'm not saying it will, but it could. For those who only do streaming, they'll have to deal with the consequences of that. The argument of "well, someone will just step in" doesn't really hold water, imo. We don't know what we don't know. This may not be a consideration for some, and that's fine, but I don't like it. Or rather, I'm not comfortable with it.

I mostly wish people could concentrate on appreciating other music lovers, and be more understanding that choice is key. Let's encourage record labels to put out CD's, Vinyl, and hell even Cassettes if that's what people want. Oh, and streaming too. Let's have less of the "well, it's out in my preferred format, so tough!" Let's have less of the "Well, CD's sounded rubbish any way" type thinking. And yes, if you choose to stream, then someone like myself should accept that.

 

I like to see myself as a preservationist. A curator. An archivist. A collector of artifacts. Plus, although I'm in the definite minority, I like the sound of analog cassettes above all. I still have my CDs but have also bought all my favorite albums via cassette in the last 5 years. And specialize in Beatles cassettes from various countries. I have dozens and dozens. Buying cassettes is a higher priority for me than putting money toward streaming. And I will buy a CD if it isn't available via cassette. Like the 2018 White album remix. Also currently have an order out for the 2014 vinyl mono Sgt. Pepper's. Even though my turntable has been in storage since 1989. So, everybody likes different things and has different priorities. No problem.

 

Right. I just can't agree with his posts like the one below (from a different thread).
No way.

 

I tuned out of this thread a while ago but I see it's still a raging debate about the future of formats and platforms. But since people always site how they assume it will be hard to find a working CD player at some point in the next century as part of their anti-CD rationale, I decided to go to Amazon and look up CD players. I was pleasantly surprised to see pages and pages, everything from a discman all the way up to multi-disc changers still being produced, and with hundreds and thousands of reviews. I think the worry of no working player is baseless until well after our lifetimes.

 

The notion of music as a tangible thing with artwork and liner notes that you can own is a blip in history. For centuries, songs such as Greensleeves or Scarborough Fair were transmitted from person to person. There was no object containing those songs you could put on a shelf. Likewise, during Mozart’s life, you either had to see the Marriage of Figaro in person or obtain a copy of the score or a reduction of the score and perform it yourself. There was no Deutsche Grammophon CD box set of the opera available to buy and listen to in the privacy of your home whenever you felt like it.

Whether I listen to the Marriage of Figaro today on CD or on Spotify, I’m still listening to it in a way that it wasn’t meant to be listened to. It was written to be staged and performed, not listened to as an audio-only experience.

People who grew up in the second half of the twentieth century and take plastic discs for granted as “the way we listen to music” are mistaking the customs of their blip in time for the only right way to listen to music.

 

I love it when I get 'splained to about how the business works. After all, what do I know? I've only been making records since 1996. I can tell you that there is no catch-all figure with regard to the percentages you mention, and every label operates differently. If you think Dischord or Kill Rock Stars--to name just two very successful indie labels--are only paying artists 14% after costs, you need to do a little research.

Maybe all the artists on this board should post their royalty statements to prove what Spotify actually pays per play. It's been done before, but I guess the message isn't getting through.

 

Well I’m glad I lived in the blip.

 

Well, your profile is stark raving blank so none of us would necessarily be aware of your experience in the business.

 

Maybe it's just the way they like to listen to their music.It is for me.Sound quality is very important to me.More important than convenience.That's me.I understand if convenience is the trump card for you.
Personally I have no wish to be able to listen to my music when I'm having a shave in the morning,or a dump.I don't want music everywhere I go thanks.I like to settle down in my little cave,fire up my hifi and enjoy a nice cuppa and a chocolate digestive and know that I am getting the best that I can out of that 12 inches of plastic.
I know it's not everyone,it's me.

 

A blip is a passing event of no consequence. Music changed forever when sheet music became threatened with recorded sound. Recorded sound is not a blip but a technological development that forever changes the nature of sound. Like the way the washing machine and the freezer changed the nature of clothing/washing, and the way in which mankind consumes food. We're not going back to the days of sheet music.

I think its fair to say that, if Beethoven could have produced perfect master recordings of his work the way he wanted it to sound, he would have, and sheet music was merely a transcription of his vision using the best available technology at the time. Recorded sound is here to stay.

 

I agree with much of this, but your point here makes the argument over the micro-distinction between the authenticity of listening to a digital file of recorded music on a five inch plastic disc vs. the authenticity listening to a digital file of a recorded music on a streaming service seem even sillier.

And there is no law set in stone that we can’t go back to sheet music. If I don’t like McDonalds, microwave dinners, and Uber Eats, nothing’s stopping me from having a vegetable garden and cooking my dinner at home. If I really want to engage with music beyond passive consumption of it, nothing’s stopping me from learning to play an instrument and playing a Mozart piano sonata at home or writing my own songs on guitar. Or I can just listen to music on CDs and feel superior to people who listen to music on Spotify.

 

Despite your projection of how people use streaming services, I don’t have Spotify on when I’m shaving. Most often, I listen to it just like a listen to CDs: I put on an album and listen to it from start to finish.

As for the sound quality argument, while I too have gold CDs, SACDs, and audiophile LPs because I care about sound quality, the CD format is stuck at 16/44.1 forever, while streaming services such as Tidal Hi-Fi and Neil Young’s archives website are introducing higher resolution streaming. While you will doubtless pay a premium for that, audio streaming quality will doubtless continue to improve, for those who are willing to pay for it, just as I can now stream 4K video at home that is better quality than the VHS tapes and DVDs that were the best quality physical media were capable of twenty or thirty years ago.

 

True, and I think we’ve gotten a pretty good idea of which bit, anatomically speaking.

The reaction has been to his labeling, via innuendo, that those who collect CDs are hoarders and mentally ill. Also, his arrogance over how streaming is the last word and bullying of folks who don’t ascribe to the streaming culture for whatever reason.

This we can agree on. In respect to artists getting paid properly, the piddling amount streaming is paying out for many in the music industry will not support creativity in that industry long term. I happen to agree with Joe Bonamassa on this point. But the point about padding collections with used media isn’t the real problem, not even a symptom of it. The real problem facing artists with the low-balling approach streaming services are taking is how it will negatively impact the sourcing of new music and financial well being of aspiring musicians and recording technicians.

:cheers:
Cat

 

I think his point was more along the lines of taking a bigger-picture view of the era of "the album" and all that means, and treating it with the same rules as every other paradigm shift in the history of music, which is that it's temporary and things are always changing. I've read comments in here from people that seem to be based in the notion that the album as we understood it in the 60s/70s/80s is the way it's "supposed to be" and that something like streaming is thwarting an historical norm. The fact is, it's not. Yes, you are right that recorded music is "here to stay," but I don't think his point had to do with recorded music, so much as the fetishization of the album, as it meant in past eras. The real historical norm is that as technology changes, so does the way was listen to and consume (and make) music. The "album era" is gone and is not coming back.

 

I mainly listen to records.I doubt that any streaming service either now or in the near future will give me the sound quality I currently get from my analogue set up.I've heard top quality streaming on an expensive set up and it was good but no better than I have now,so no point in changing in that regard.But that's a topic for a different thread.

 

Any idea what an artist gets paid per song played on the radio in the US?

 

So jump back a year ago and I had planned to phase out CD's. I was planning on going all digital downloads (CD quality or better) but I found the lack of digital booklets really odd and CD packaging and price better than saving space.

I still wonder why digital booklets don't seem to be the norm?

 

I like records too, but mostly records from the blip in the 60s and 70s when the vinyl record album was the dominant format and everything in the recording and production chain was analog. If I want to listen to a new rock album, I’d just as soon stream it or listen to it on CD as play the LP cut more often than not from a digital file.

Beyond that, I can’t afford to own, nor do I have the space to store, an LP of every piece of music I’m interested in, so I’m thankful for streaming, and, when listening to something like a Wagner opera, I don’t want to deal with a five- or six-LP set that interrupts the acts with LP side changes, so I’m thankful for CDs and streaming there as well.

 

I dunno, but if they include lyrics, a special license is needed to reproduced them online. Also, some booklets predate photoshop and contain cut and paste edits. I shouldn't wonder if there is no digital files for these booklets.

 

I always prefer records from an all analogue chain.Nowadays you have to be careful.I listen to a lot of jazz and there are excellent re-issue labels doing great work.