Paul McCartney Flaming Pie Archive Collection - Sound Quality Discussion

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Captain Paul, Aug 2, 2020.

  1. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

    Location:
    Nashville
    AFAIK, they're identical, mastering-wise.
     
  2. jacden

    jacden Senior Member

    Location:
    Denmark
    The HD Tracks + streaming version has fewer tracks though. Specifically the two hidden tracks, Ballad Of The Skeletons and the spoken word disc are all missing. You need to purchase the physical Deluxe or Collectors' Edition to have access to those.
     
  3. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

    Location:
    Nashville
    I'll just have to live my life without those clearly essential tracks. :laugh:
     
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  4. Captain Paul

    Captain Paul Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    :laugh:
     
  5. jacden

    jacden Senior Member

    Location:
    Denmark
    Yeah well. At least the really groovy stuff like the extra blip in "Souvenir" is present on all formats.
     
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  6. Captain Paul

    Captain Paul Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    USA
    Isn’t that “blip” a fraction of a second long? How can that even be considered an issue?
     
  7. jacden

    jacden Senior Member

    Location:
    Denmark
    That's up to the individual. It's annoying as heck to me. It may not be to you. We're both right and none of us are wrong.
     
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  8. Arnold Grove

    Arnold Grove Senior Member

    Location:
    NYC
    One person's fraction of a second is another person's moment of pleasure... ;)
     
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  9. tineardrum

    tineardrum Forum Resident

    Location:
    91765
    Is everyone hearing this blip on "Souvenir"? I'm not hearing anything wrong at 3:05 with 2CD set.
     
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  10. Michael Streett

    Michael Streett Senior Member

    Location:
    Florence, SC
    If you count the beats in the bars of Souvenir 1,2,3 1,2,3, this digital glitch sound is heard at 3:05 on the "2" of that bar in the center of the stereo spectrum.
    It's not the sound in the right hand channel on the "1" of that bar at 3:05. That sound is on the original CD. More easily heard using headphones of course.
     
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  11. monomusic

    monomusic Forum Resident

    The Deluxe is on the way, but the 3-LP arrived yesterday. Sounds fantastic and I was unaware it was cut at half-speed using the Neumann VMS-80 cutting system - I don't know if that is vacuum tube or solid state based. Can someone verify? I tried researching that, came up empty.

    The mastering engineer's liner notes mentioned that it was made into two LP's, because of all of the compromises to the audio quality on one LP. I bought the original first pressing (one LP) in 1997 and since then, its aftermarket cost has been ridiculous - well over $100. So, perhaps this revelation will now lower the price for people who want a first pressing copy of Flaming Pie. I got it at a midnight record release party at Tower Records the day it came out, and there was a huge stack of them. Instead of one, I should have bought ten! But, this new edition is better, anyways.
     
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  12. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

    Location:
    Nashville
    Finally giving this a first listen on Apple Music, and even though the original of this wasn't as bad as the albums that followed, mastering-wise, the lighter touch here is absolutely night and day. This is an excellent, crankable headphone listen.
     
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  13. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

    Location:
    Nashville
    So tired of 50-minute albums being split on 4 sides. I was really hoping they'd do the album on 3 sides, and the 4 b-sides on side D. I've always wanted this on vinyl just to have it, but the digital versions are so good I can't imagine the vinyl sounding much better, so i'll probably pass. :(
     
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  14. monomusic

    monomusic Forum Resident

    I totally get it. Plus, record collecting is expensive, made worse by these aftermarket idiots price-gouging everyone during this seemingly ongoing "vinyl resurgence", etc. Personally, I still do strictly vinyl and CD's (but also play my 8-tracks and cassettes a lot, lol), as all I know or prefer, is the physical format. That said, yes - with technology today, I'm sure with FLAC files and all that - the sound quality is equally as good. It's far cheaper and takes up a LOT less space.
     
  15. walrus

    walrus Staring into nothing

    Location:
    Nashville
    The "novelty" of vinyl has worn off a bit, as far as just having albums "to have them." For many, many albums, it's still the only source of decent mastering, but if the streaming version is nice and dynamic, and the vinyl configuration is going to have me flipping sides every 3 songs, I'm probably skipping it. It's just more stuff I'm gonna have to move in another year or two (and probably again a couple years after that). I still really enjoy listening to LP's, but I'm realizing I enjoy it less when the album doesn't make any sense the way it's presented on vinyl. Let's be honest, if Flaming Pie had come out pre-CD, the blues jams would've been dropped and no one would've really missed them.
     
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  16. Paul H

    Paul H The fool on the hill

    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    Correct, I downsample the hi res to lossy. But that shouldn't/doesn't introduce the sort of digital ticking I'm hearing. At least, it hasn't on any other hi res file I've ever downsampled. And, as I say, I don't hear it on pc.
     
  17. Paul H

    Paul H The fool on the hill

    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    Notwithstanding the Souvenir glitch and my own personal ticks (!) I should say that the decision to go with a quieter, more dynamic mastering is something we should be applauding from the rooftops. For all the ranting and raving about the loudness wars, here's a battle that was won and we should all celebrate and congratulate those who made it happen. I remain disappointed that the B-sides weren't treated the same way but I really do want to thank those who ensured the parent album benefited.
     
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  18. Onder

    Onder Senior Member

    VMS-80 is the last lacquer cutting lathe Neumann ever made. Solid state.
    IIRC, it was introduced in the late 70's.

    VMS-82 DMM cuting lathe followed in the early 80's.
     
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  19. Marshall

    Marshall Forum Resident

    walrus,
    Before I wrote my review/web article on the Deluxe Edition, I was listening to the 1997 and 2020 remastered Flaming Pie album track by track through headphones. I definitely don't have the technical knowledge of wave forms, mastering, etc. But to my ears, the 2020 edition sounded warmer, and yes an excellent headphone listen.
    Marshall

    Paul McCartney "Flaming Pie" Archive Deluxe Edition Box Set Review
     
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  20. Carl80

    Carl80 Forum Resident

    I’ve just listened to the original 97 CD and the New remaster on Apple and there is a difference at 3:05, I could tell listening to the original CD.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020
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  21. monomusic

    monomusic Forum Resident

    Good to know, thanks. When was the last Neumann tube lathe in use? Or was the Neumann equipment always solid state?
     
  22. C6H12O6

    C6H12O6 Senior Member

    Location:
    My lab
    Yeah, definitely hear it. Pretty weird, it's like a botched edit - maybe they had to re-create an edit that was previous done only in the mastering stage? It's not unheard of. (Chris Shaw said he had to make a minor lyric edit on "Moonlight" during the mastering stage for Love and Theft, and not surprisingly the edit he made didn't show up on MFSL's reissue of Love and Theft.)
     
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  23. supermd

    supermd Senior Member

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    I've downsampled all this to 256 kbps and put them on my iPod Classic 160GB and I hear nothing like what you describe. :shrug:
     
  24. Carl80

    Carl80 Forum Resident

    Re the sound of souvenir at 3:05 , Surely that would have to go down as a remaster error but just find it hard to believe with them getting everything else so spot in detail with packaging, presentation etc That they could mess up something so basic with the sound and with the price being charged , unless it’s part of the new 2020 remaster version ? Just seems strange that people have reported it on the vinyl edition as well.
     
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  25. Ivan

    Ivan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Perth, Australia
    As has been mentioned, it doesn't matter how "spot on" they got everything else, this can and has happened several times with these collections. See Venus & Mars and Wild Life.
     
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