Paul McCartney Flaming Pie Archive Collection Thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by jlf, Jan 2, 2020.

  1. Cristiano Cortellazzi

    Cristiano Cortellazzi Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sirmione, Italy
  2. supermd

    supermd Senior Member

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Yes. The first few were remastered by Guy Massey, Simon Gibson, and Steve Rooke, with Allan Rouse co-ordinating.

    The more recent ones were remastered by Alex Wharton and Steve Orchard, with Lucy Launder co-ordinating.

    Sam Okell appears here and there, from the Band on the Run to Flowers in the Dirt.

    As the remastering team shifted, so too did the sound quality. A real shame.

    Keep in mind, the team who did the great remastering on the 2009 Beatles stereo and mono sets were... care to guess?... Guy Massey, Simon Gibson, Paul Hicks, Sean Magee, and Steve Rooke, with Allan Rouse co-ordinating. In short, the guys who knew their stuff. Most of these guys went to Paul's Archive series before falling off.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
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  3. maccawings

    maccawings Senior Member

    Says the etched disk skeleton
     
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  4. jl151080

    jl151080 Senior Member

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    It should be noted though that albums such as Mind Games were still in print, and easy to fund on CD in the late 90's (at least in the UK).

    The big anomaly was the George Harrison Dark Horse albums, 1976 on (including the Wilbury's), all of which were out of print because his contract with Warner Bros expired.

    That was very frustrating as a new fan in the 90's, not being able to walk into a store and pick those albums up.

    It was a similar story for the Ringo catalogue, In the UK you very rarely saw any of Ringo's back catalogue in the racks. I began to order most of them online in the late 90's; though Old Wave and Stop And Smell The Roses eluded me for years.

    Even some new Ringo releases had to be placed as a special order in store, as I did for I Wanna Be Santa Claus back in 1999 - for the hefty sum of £16.99!

    In contrast though, I had no problem finding Vertical Man and VH1 Storytellers in my local store upon release in 1998.

    From Ringorama in 2003 on, the days of hunting for new Ringo releases in store were gone and I was able to order them online.

    I have an HMV near me, though, and for the last three Ringo albums I have been able to buy them in store on release day - a nice throwback to when I was digging through the racks looking for CD's back in the 90's!
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
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  5. Brian from Canada

    Brian from Canada Forum Resident

    Location:
    Great White North
    Nowhere in the promotion for the coloured live albums was it mentioned that these remasters were in lieu of them getting archive releases in the future — just as Concord's reprinting of albums like Run Devil Run and Off the Ground don't preclude them either.

    And, more to the point, the release date of those coloured vinyls was not only weeks after the Egypt Station re-release but would be near the halfway point between larger Archive sets had the original plan to release London Town and Back to the Egg together at the end of 2019 as many had hoped would be come through.

    Define "that level."
    Wings Over America may have been Wings at their peak, but Tripping the Live Fantastic was a global triumph that saw Paul finally play in Japan and his breaking the world record for single concert attendance in Rio amongst the high points.

    For me, the idea that Wings Over America would be included in the first wave has a lot more to do with what happened in the decade previous than Tripping itself.
    In 2000, McCartney was out promoting Wingspan, a documentary about Wings that was a film, double CD and book.
    In 2000-2001, McCartney forms a new band that he is going on the road with and – with Wings still in his mind – he included more Wings material in the set list.
    For the next few years, Wix talks about the desire to play Beatles pieces like "Lovely Rita" and "Rocky Raccoon," but Brian, Abe and Rusty are talking songs like "Hi Hi Hi" instead.
    He is somewhat more Wings-focused than 80s onwards, which explains why barely anything from 1982-1995 has shown up in his tours post-2001 — zero if you count outside of South America – and explains why, outside of Flowers in the Dirt, each of the initial Archives involved a song or two played on tour by that band pre-2010…
    1. Band on the Run: Band On The Run, Jet, Let Me Roll It, Mrs. Vanderbilt, Nineteen-Hundred and Eighty-Five, Bluebird
    2. McCartney: Maybe I'm Amazed, Every Night, McCartney II: Coming Up, Temporary Secretary
    3. Ram: Another Day, Too Many People, Ram On
    4. Venus And Mars: Venus And Mars / Rockshow, Letting Go, Listen To What The Man Said, Speed Of Sound: Let 'Em In
    5. Tug Of War: Here Today, with a one-shot performance of Ebony & Ivory
    6. Flaming Pie: Flaming Pie, Calico Skies
    "Wonderful Christmastime," "Hope Of Deliverance" and a one-off of "Looking For Changes" are left to represent the rest of the catalogue… that's not a lot to keep the albums on Paul's mind.

    Not to mention the fact that Paul himself didn't bother keeping the highlights of the previous tour's new album songs into the next tour until really the beginning of New's promotional cycle either.
     
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  6. jl151080

    jl151080 Senior Member

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    Of course they're not going to mention that the remasters are in lieu of archive releases, and maybe they're not, but I think you have to read between the lines. No other albums have received bare bones remasters in the last couple of years, then have subsequently received archive releases.

    Off The Ground, Run Devil Run and Driving Rain are separate because they weren't remasters, just reissues on a different label.

    I don't think the reissue of Wings Over America had anything to do with the above, just that it was a successful live album that captured Wings at their peak.

    Tripping may have been a successful tour, but I don't believe it is recognised as an album on the same level as Wings Over America.
     
  7. jl151080

    jl151080 Senior Member

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    Wingspan was released and promoted in 2001 and sessions for Driving Rain began February 2001, so the new band must have been put together late 2000-early 2001.

    McCartney doesn't start touring until April 2002 - almost a year post Wingspan, so I don't think any decision to include Wings tracks is as a result of being more Wings focused.

    Even then, the Wings choices are usually pretty obvious - Band On The Run; Jet; Live And Let Die, with the odd exception such as C'Moon.

    It;s not until much later that he starts to perform some Wings tracks rarely performed live - Letting Go, Juniors Farm.
     
  8. omikron

    omikron Avid contributor to Paul McCartney's bank account

    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    Probably best we're not calling it Big Flaming Bag.

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. jl151080

    jl151080 Senior Member

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    So that's where the guy on the cover of Wish You Were Here lives...;)
     
  10. omikron

    omikron Avid contributor to Paul McCartney's bank account

    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    I'm not disputing your points at all but at this point in the 21st century, casual fans buying CDs of any album must be an absurd endeavor for record companies to bank on. I would imagine that the mega sets sell more copies than the basic 2-discs. All the real money to be made is in the box sets.
     
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  11. jl151080

    jl151080 Senior Member

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    As I posted elsewhere though, according to McCartney's manager MPL are close to losing money on the Archive sets, so it doesn't sound as though there is a big profit margin if that's true.
     
  12. omikron

    omikron Avid contributor to Paul McCartney's bank account

    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    If it's that much a labor of love and not a profit maker, then that really doesn't bode well for a series continuation after LT/BTTE.

    And I would be so peeved if we don't get Press To Play or Off The Ground.
     
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  13. omikron

    omikron Avid contributor to Paul McCartney's bank account

    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    So Ballad of Skeletons is the etched disc, eh?
     
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  14. jl151080

    jl151080 Senior Member

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    True, and that's why I doubt we'll see an archive edition for something like Tripping The Live Fantastic.

    Even if we don't get Archive editions for them, I at least want remasters for the rest of the catalogue.
     
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  15. mikecarrera

    mikecarrera Forum Resident

    Location:
    Duluth
    Said the Chef Ramsey Skeleton,
    let’s make some pie
    keep the oven clean and ready
     
  16. Brian from Canada

    Brian from Canada Forum Resident

    Location:
    Great White North
    Mega sets appeal to older audiences with disposable income.
    The younger audiences with disposable income are paying for streaming services.

    How many people under 40 use digital devices for their music versus those who have physical disc players?
    How many of those who are buying physical copies are getting vinyl because it's the "in" thing to do, while streaming elsewhere?

    If the Archive series ends, so will the remasters. There's no point in putting work into an album that's just as sellable as is.
    You really don't need to remaster for Spotify.
     
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  17. Paul H

    Paul H The fool on the hill

    Location:
    Nottingham, UK
    There were complaints about the consistency of mastering volume and the fact that the "unlimited" mastering wasn't actually unlimited at all, just less limited. Those are legitimate complaints, especially on an audiophile forum.
     
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  18. supermd

    supermd Senior Member

    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Not to mention the actual remastering itself. I've said enough about this since release haha. Y'all know how I feel. Such a bummer; such good albums/bonus material.
     
  19. grorr76

    grorr76 Forum Resident

    nit picking I reckon I have a high end system and think all the remastering sound fantastic as do the vinyl pressings of said archive releases.
     
  20. jl151080

    jl151080 Senior Member

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    Not necessarily.

    They could cease the deluxe sets but still release single disc remasters, similar to their handling of Choba B Ccp, Paul Is Live etc.
     
  21. jl151080

    jl151080 Senior Member

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    I've just been spinning Pure McCartney.

    Personally I don't hear much difference on the remasters of the Flaming Pie tracks. Maybe a little more 'punch'? It's one of those instances where I don't know if the difference is real, or perceived!
     
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  22. Brian from Canada

    Brian from Canada Forum Resident

    Location:
    Great White North
    The only reason those were remastered was because they were making coloured vinyl for the hipsters who prefer to buy heavy vinyl based on its "better" sound.
    If they cease the deluxe sets, I expect the vinyl reissues will stop soon after – the market for them would likely be much of the same buyers as those who are getting the sets.

    Keep in mind that Pure McCartney demonstrated that the need for remastering ends somewhere between Flaming Pie and Chaos And Creation, because the latter is not.
    Personally, I think that the sales for Flaming Pie and the combined Wings albums London Town and Back to the Egg would likely encourage finishing off the big albums missing: Broad Street, Press to Play and Off the Ground, though the latter two are large enough that something should be partnered with Broad Street (likely Choba, since it finishes off the 80s).
    At that point, the series will have to make a major decision if it continues into the 90s because all that's left are live albums and classical works until Run Devil Run, and the 00s albums have no remastering plus most of the set material already laid out post-2007.
     
  23. jl151080

    jl151080 Senior Member

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    I don't believe that was the case. If it was they could have just issued the vinyl, and not bothered with CD releases at all.

    My personal prediction is that we'll see Archive sets for London Town and Back to the Egg; possibly Broadstreet and Press To Play, and that will be it. McCartney himself doesn't think much of Press To Play though, so it will be interesting to see the marketing for that one.

    As you say, Pure McCartney only included remastering up to Flaming Pie. To me that was a clear indication that we won't see remasters of albums from Run Devil Run on. What there will be though; st some point; are reissues of those albums on the Capitol label, but it wouldn't surprise me if they were straight non-remastered reissues with a label change.
     
  24. paulmccartneyistheman

    paulmccartneyistheman Forum Resident

    I agree, but I’d love for there to be one for every album, but I agree with what you’re saying 100%.

    I love all of his 2000s albums for one reason or another but the only album I feel truly deserves the treatment post-1997 is Chaos, which would stand well for Paul’s critical and public opinion. But since it has been standard reissued recently I really can’t see it getting the treatment anytime soon if at all.
     
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  25. mikecarrera

    mikecarrera Forum Resident

    Location:
    Duluth
    Please post it here as well, and also, is this interview recent? If true, maybe only 3 Archives left and that's it but we haven't heard that kind of news.
    Maybe the box sets are not selling out as they've expected but, losing money? Making an Archive Box (or any disc no matter if it's CD or vinyl or box set, etc) costs very cheap if you compare the final sale price, maybe MPL is not making money but the Record companies and final dealers are, (and if you add that some 'special' Super Deluxe editions are exclusives to the official stores, there is not so much loss there, maybe Paul needs a new manager to do the business?)
     

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