Paul McCartney greatest flaw as an artist ?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by johnny moondog 909, Mar 11, 2018.

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  1. Klassik

    Klassik Guerilla BeatLOLogist

    Location:
    United Kingdom

    Totally agree and think that he was much more affected by the death of Lennon, the critical apocalypse of the Broad Street movie and the Jackson betrayal than anybody realised.
    After all, the guy had just pulled himself very admirably out of post-fabs malaise to critical and then commercial ascendancy and then...here we go again with knobs on.
    By the time he surfaced from the 80's with 'My Brave Face' it was just that. There have been moments when he transcends the act he's putting on but Paul McCartney, rockstar is now very much an act and there was a little truth when he said he's 'the leading Beatles tribute band'
    He's been compensated fully by a rich family life though so, you know, this is pretty much a regular story of the pass-through of life.
    You'd LIKE to reach heights of inspiration and energy and performance from past times but, you know, it's a combination of 'can't be bothered' or 'the kids' or whatever combined with, perhaps, a realisation that he didn't try too hard when these moments of ascendancy came in the past anyway. The result is McCartney is living in the moment. Can't fault that, really. It's the spiritual aim of others. He still brings out the guns frequently enough to keep pretty much everybody interested, whether that's in performance, melody or concept, his three big areas.
     
  2. jmxw

    jmxw Fab Forum Fan

    I had to go with #1, weak lyrics. Sometimes his lyrics are great, usually they are good, sometimes they are... less than impressive. He seems to be doing pretty well lyrically-speaking for several albums now. [Everything after Driving Rain, maybe?]

    I love that he is always trying new styles and/or new approaches. I am not a fan of his "classical" works, but I'm not much of a classical fan, so I let others judge them. I do often enjoy his electronica experiments, or other musical experiments. I think it's great that he is co-credited with 4, 5 Seconds..

    And, yes, I would be more inclined to see him [yet again] live if he were to shake up the set list more..

    But I have loved him as a solo artist and Beatles for 43 years or so and am not about to stop now.
     
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  3. jmxw

    jmxw Fab Forum Fan

    Radio? What's radio?

    Seriously, though, who listens to music on the radio these days? Not the kids who buy most music.

    He had the song New placed in a movie. That seems to be one of the best ways to promote nowadays. Generate buzz so "the kids" put you on their Spotify list...
     
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  4. Klassik

    Klassik Guerilla BeatLOLogist

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    You're forgetting death as a career move (although it's slightly complicated by the fact that many ALREADY think he's dead).
    I'm certain 'Mull of Kintyre' will have its revenge by selling another two million once he pops his beatle boots.
    Can't you ALREADY see the slebs lining up for talking head interviews on why it's the most important record ever made?
     
  5. WilliamWes

    WilliamWes Likes to sing along but he knows not what it means

    Location:
    New York
    These are good examples of emotion but people don't feel "Hey Jude" is resonant back then because he broke up with Jane Asher. It's because the song has a great lyric-people didn't know he broke up with Asher so he wrote "Hey Jude". It's not even about a woman.

    "Every Night" is a generic lyric that can be applied to anything including a Beatle breakup but the Beatles hadn't broken up yet officially when fans heard it. Nowadays, fans like it as a love song-it's not some escape song about getting away from a breakup or depression.

    "Queenie Eye" is a good lyric but it's so generalized that one won't get the connection to Heather.

    All 3 are great songs but not every one of Paul's fans knows the exact history of every song. I think they just thought they were resonant lyrics which they are.
     
  6. WilliamWes

    WilliamWes Likes to sing along but he knows not what it means

    Location:
    New York
    I think you're right and that Paul's lyrics got more down to earth and more about trying to get a message across than an impression. His lyrics seemed to get older, mature and generally a little less fun. He still has his fun songs but there's more of a cutting emotional feel.

    A great example is comparing a 1975 sentiment of growing old with one from 2007- "Treat Her Gently/Lonely Old People" and "The End of the End".

    The former has lyrics that has a great sentiment and subject matter but is executed with flaws- lines like "treat her kind she doesn't even know her own mind" sounds clunky and insensitive despite his feeling that he cares. "Bit by bit two lonely old people eaking their lives away." He leaves an impression instead of hitting you hard with a lyric that describes how life is empty. The music suggests he is sentimental for this old couple but the lyrics don't match the greatness of the sound.

    On "The End of the End", he comes up with some great lines; "on the day that I die, I'd like bells to be rung and songs that were sung, to be hung out like blankets, that lovers have played on and laid on while listening to songs that were sung." - That verse has a great complicated rhyming scheme, a great sound in the ear- it flows well, and it's as resonant as anyone could muster. Look at the difference of maturity between the two songs.

    Paul has had some great lyrical moments early too and I think some of his non-personal is personal like others have said but it's the execution in his 70's work that differs from his 60s, 80's, 90's and 21 st century work. I have plenty of good and bad examples from the 70's, but he's just not as effective in the 70's. Compare his stuff to the singer songwriter movement and the prog movement and even the straight rock bands of the era like Zep or The Who- Paul was anti-deep with his lyrics when everyone else was delving deeper which is cool that he went against the grain, but he had some low moments lyrically.
     
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  7. jgkojak

    jgkojak Mull of Kansas

    Location:
    Lawrence, KS
    Agree. Knowing Only Mama Knows and House of Wax were in the can is a little frustrating-

    I could see a Chaos with
    SIDE ONE 1. Fine Line, 2. Jenny Wren, 3. Friends To Go, 4. At the Mercy, 5. English Tea, 6. Summer of '59, 7. Too Much Rain
    SIDE TWO 1. A Certain Softness, 2. Riding To Vanity Fair, 3. This Loving Game, 4. Promise To You Girl, 5. Only Mama Knows, 6. House of Wax, 7. This Never Happened Before

    Bold = upbeat rockier songs

    I like This Never Happened... as the final track - it's such a great song

    Follow Me feels like it would fit better on Memory...
     
    johnny moondog 909 likes this.
  8. maccafan

    maccafan Senior Member

    I don't think Godrich's production would have improved Only Mama Knows or House of Wax at all!

    First off he would have found a way to keep them from rocking! Like he did by getting rid of McCartney's band?! He accomplished that pretty much with the whole Chaos album, why, who knows?

    Every now and then a really good song becomes a hit, but in today's climate it isn't about a good song, it's about what's trending, the latest fad, going along. Just look at the charts these days, you'll scratch your head bald wondering how such absolute garbage is at the top of the charts!
     
  9. johnny moondog 909

    johnny moondog 909 Beatles-Lennon & Classic rock fan Thread Starter

    How long an album is that tracklist ?

    It's pretty good but has a couple I wouldn't want, Summer of 59, This Loving game, although I do like those. Pretty good concept on the running order.
     
  10. maccafan

    maccafan Senior Member

    I'd definitely want This Loving Game! It's one of those fantastic McCartney ballads, how on Earth didn't it make the album?

    What I would get rid of is English Tea, it sounds like a song for children?
     
  11. idreamofpikas

    idreamofpikas Forum Resident

    Location:
    england
    I kind of doubt that. It will be Yesterday or Let it Be, they will be the songs that people download (hopefully many years from now) in tribute to his death. The Lennon and Harrison estates had a degree of control with the success of My Sweet Lord and Imagine (though in fairness they were probably the most appropriate choices) as they could pick the physical single that would be used as a tribute. When Paul dies people will just download the song that most people identify with him.
     
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  12. mishima's dog

    mishima's dog Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    When Liverpool comedian Ken Dodd died last week McCartney signed off his tribute with 'See you Doddie.'

    Hopefully that won't be for a long while yet.
     
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  13. jgkojak

    jgkojak Mull of Kansas

    Location:
    Lawrence, KS
    I chose Summer of '59 because it made a nice "link track" between English Tea and Too Much Rain and added some rock n roll to the mix-
    I was torn between Comfort of Love and This Loving Game - the latter seems like a complete song, Comfort sounds like a one step away demo - better maybe for Memory...
     
  14. jgkojak

    jgkojak Mull of Kansas

    Location:
    Lawrence, KS
    If we go with this concept - then Memory looks like-

    1. Dance Tonight/2. Ever Present Past/3. See Your Sunshine/4. Comfort of Love (perhaps with some more production)/5. You Tell Me/6. Mr. Bellamy/7. Why So Blue/8. Vintage Clothes/9. That Was Me/10. Feet in the Clouds/11. The End of the End/12. Follow Me

    This makes the album a little bit more melancholy but it makes a little more sense - and Follow Me works wonderfully as a closing track here.
     
  15. Price.pittsburgh

    Price.pittsburgh Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    McCartney's greatest flaw as an artist was that he thought he was better than he was.
    He didn't know how to objectively judge some really bad and annoying songs.
    He's probably the best example of a songwriter with the most extreme separation of quality between his good and bad material.
    When he's good he's great and probably the best ever singer/songwriter/player combo artist ever.
    When he's bad he's so bad it's hard to believe it's the same guy.
     
  16. Bruce M.

    Bruce M. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hilo, HI, USA
    I must say I totally disagree. A couple years back, someone on here posted 2 live clips of Paul singing "Yesterday" -- a TV appearance from when the song was first released, and a concert from probably 2010 or so. Technically, the '65 performance was stronger -- there's nothing quite like the silky magic of Paul's young voice. But the more recent version actually sounded like he meant it. Though scratchier than his youthful self, this was the voice of a man who had lived long enough to "long for yesterday," and it felt utterly real.
     
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  17. Bruce M.

    Bruce M. Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hilo, HI, USA
    Yes, "New" was in a movie. And it didn't crack the Hot 100.
     
  18. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    I see no musical flaws or other in Paul other than not wanting to get old or embracing it, but who does? I cannot put him down as he has been a part of my music life for so many years...
     
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  19. idreamofpikas

    idreamofpikas Forum Resident

    Location:
    england
    I don't think that is true, I just don't think all his songs (both with and without the Beatles) were aimed at the same audience. All his songs were not trying to impress rock fans, he was happy to write other genres.

    Some of his songs people deem annoying are amongst the most successful of their era.
     
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  20. tages

    tages Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Or, he just loves the art of making music so much that he’s too immersed in it to be objective about what you may like or don’t like about it.

    His biggest fans don’t even agree on what his strongest material is.
     
  21. Price.pittsburgh

    Price.pittsburgh Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    I don't think any of his hits are annoying nor many of his album cuts that do or don't delve into other genres.
    But he's got some half baked and unorganized songs that prevent me from enjoying most his albums straight through.
    That being said I personally think he just tried to record too many albums in a short period.
    Had he been more patient he could have had five 70s masterpieces.
     
  22. Price.pittsburgh

    Price.pittsburgh Forum Resident

    Location:
    Florida
    No love for one's art can make someone believe trash is gold.
    It comes more from being pretentious.
    Not unusual in show business.
     
  23. bvb1123

    bvb1123 Rock and Roll Martian

    Location:
    Cincinnati Ohio
    McCartney's biggest flaw is that he didn't know when to quit. He hasn't made any music I've wanted to listen to in over a decade. He should just stick to being an "oldies act" on tour and stop releasing albums that only serve to tarnish his legend.
     
  24. tages

    tages Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    I think it depends on the individual. You’re assuming something about his character that I respectfully disagree with.
     
  25. idreamofpikas

    idreamofpikas Forum Resident

    Location:
    england
    I am more than happy with 2 masterpieces from the 70's and 7 good albums and a bunch of excellent singles and bsides.

    The argument that artists should limit their output always perplexes me. Producing more does not hurt anyone and enriches some. Just loot at the opposite, no one is thankful that John took 5 years off or that George was pretty inactive for much of his later years. People want more from artists, not less.

    Paul, Dylan and Young all release a lot of material, a lot not essential listening but their careers are a richer for it.
     
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