"Pop" is such a vague label. It used to mean everything that was not classical, and then it seemed like at least a third of classical was also "pop". Now it's meaning has become so convoluted. It sometimes seems that you start out your music career with some esoteric musical genre label, then if you keep going long enough, you are moved into the "pop" category, even if your music did not change.
Wow, I don't think that one's even mentioned in any of her biographies. I wonder if that's by design or because even the sources they use didn't even know about it? I know all those songs, but I've never even heard of this particular set.
As far as Peggy Lee's own reaction goes, I do not believe that she made any public commentary. However, taking into account how much she liked and admired Nat, I am inclined to think that she didn't mind it (much). Peggy often remarked about what a thrill it was for her, to hear other artists sing numbers that she had written. The thrill of hearing Nat cover the song (and the pride stemming from the song's inclusion on what promptly became a classic album of romance, Love Is the Thing) might have thus superseded any minor misgivings on her part. Not that there is any foundation to speak of misgivings, enmity, or resentment. Quite the opposite. A background of casual friendship and professional partnership was at play. They had had the same manager for many years (1940s to early 1950s). It was Peggy with husband Dave who substituted for Nat on one of his radio shows when he got married and went on a honeymoon with wife Maria .... So, around 1956 (when he recorded her number) Nat, Gordon Jenkins, or even Lee Gillette might have even asked for permission from her. There certainly wasn't any discernible fallout from it, as she willingly and helpfully guested on his TV show the following year. By the way, I can tell that this subject has interested you for a long time: Nat King Cole - "Where Can I Go Without You". ... Glad you pointed out the lack of logic in the itinerary! In that old thread, our host raised a point about the popularity of the Tiki culture, in particular (and, more generally, all things exotic), as a possible reason for the change. That reasoning still sounds plausible to me. His point could also be tied to the intermittently exotic, paradisiacal feel of the album's string arrangements. I would like to think, though, that the reason for this continental change was more personal and less trendy than the pursuit of a fad, or even a penchant for alliteration ("seeing Singapore"). A thought that has crossed my mind is that Nat could have been making an acknowledgment or concession to fans in Malaysia, if he had ever traveled there, or if he had heard that he was especially popular there. Another thought is that he and Maria could have gone to Singapore for a vacation, and the place could have held special meaning for them. (Note the inclusion of a song with a suggestive title in the album: Nat King Cole // I Thought About Marie (mono). Jenkins apparently wrote it ... My point is that there could be autobiographical undertones to this album. What's more, "I Thought About Marie" and "Where Can I Go Without You" were apparently recorded back to back, which further encourages thoughts of an association between these songs.) And how about any connections between Singapore and the films or life of the song's composer, Victor Young? (Just passing thoughts of mine, all of the above. I haven't looked into any of it. But I don't believe I've heard of any connections between Nat and Singapore. Also, even for the wealthy and adventurous, Malaysia seems a bit far as a choice for any casual vacation ... Pondering here.) Now that some years have passed and her version is easier to track down, you might be interested to go hear what Nina actually does. She injects the ballad with a political stance. The woman actually keeps both Germany and Singapore in the equation. It's not just "Germany" that she sings, but "West Germany." Mel's version is of particular interest to me. Well-put together from a conceptual perspective, it features some unique lyrics, including a verse and a parallel coda. It leaves me to wonder who wrote those lyrics. Mel would be perfectly capable of doing so, and he might very well have. But, if so, no credit to him was included. Only Peggy Lee and Victor Young are credited. ============== I don't know; your assumption would be as good as mine. If we were to dig a bit further, I suppose that we could find out. But, in all honesty, business deals and negotiations involving major conglomerates do not arouse my curiosity all that much.
If we (fans) have to miss an album of hers, this is a good one for that. As you imply, its songs can be easily obtained elsewhere. And its artwork does not exactly scream "pictorial masterpiece." In fairness to her two biographers, they do not have an obligation to discuss or even list every single album of hers -- all the more so when we are referring to what is, in essence, a compilation. That having been said, chances are that the earlier biographer was never familiar with it. The later biographer could have had some degree of awareness or familiarity, but might have been too wrapped in his own agenda to find anything worthy of his mention in it. Be that as it may, the album is actually listed in Peggy's autobiography:
The song was basically tagged to the May 19, 1958 session, probably because Peggy and Capitol were eager to release it as a single. So, rather than wait any further, she and her producer made the necessary adjustments so that "Fever" could be recorded at the end of this date. The single's flip side, "You Don't Know," was then recorded at the start of the next album date (May 25, 1958). The single was out on the streets in no time, becoming one of the hits of that summer. (Meanwhile, Things Are Swingin' had to wait until November or so for its release, as a monophonic album.) Paradoxically, Peggy probably had no intention to record "Fever" (at first). The singer originally picked the number just to feature it at her Copacabana nightclub act, which started in February of 1958. At that point in time, she was coming out of semi-retirement, and wanted to celebrate the occasion by putting together a major show at New York's Copa. In search of a torch ballad to debut, she settled on "Fever" -- though not before making substantial changes to the number. Over the years, Peggy's concerts often included interpretations that she never put on record. "Fever" could have wounded up being one more of them, hadn't it been for the fiercely enthusiastic response that her interpretation received from club audiences. In May, when she took her act to Hollywood's Mocambo, clients reacted even more enthusiastically. At some point between February and May, she also performed the number at a telethon. A transfer of the telethon performance managed to end up in the hands of Vancouver disc jockey Red Robinson. After he played it, the phone lines at the Canadian station lighted up like crazy. US Capitol was told of the frenzied radio response, and of course there was no way back from that moment on. The label requested a rush recording of "Fever," with the intention of putting it out as a single right away, before any rival label could get the "wrong idea" and steal the concept. Hence the insertion of the number in the May 1958 album sessions. That's also why, as .Crystalised. pointed out, "Fever" doesn't sound like anything in Things Are Swingin', despite having been recorded during its sessions. (The album's conductor actually tried to redirect the song in a direction similar to the album, but Peggy resisted his attempts, and she got her way in the end.) After the single, "Fever" was issued on two EPs, one featuring the same mono mix heard on the hit 45, and the other featuring the debut of a stereo mix: As for LP release, "Fever" had to wait until 1960 to make its first appearance on a Peggy Lee album. The mono mix thus became part of her compilation All Aglow Again. (The stereo mix had shown up on a 1959 various-artists Capitol LP.) The version of "Fever" that can be found most everywhere, and which became famous, is that mono original. As for items that contain the stereo mix, they are few, and that's how it should be. There is very little point in hearing this number in anything but the mono, for which each instrumentalist (as well as the vocalist, of course) appears to have been individually miked. The stereo mix sounds perfectly fine, mind you, but instrumentally it does not pack as strong of a punch as the mono. The album Things Are Swingin' sounds best in its Capitol Jazz CD incarnation. To me, this album is one of only a handful that have been satisfactorily remastered for digital consumption.
Seem strange to include "Listen To The Rockin' Bird" with three R&B influenced numbers. "Every Night" is a better choice. Or, keep "Rockin' Bird" and replace "Baby, Baby Wait For Me" with the ballad version of "Uninvited Dream". My sentiments exactly, just much better stated. Indeed, the "technical problem" described on this reissue is the lack of proper microphone placement for the three-track recordings of "Fever" and "You Don't Know". There's nothing wrong with those session tapes; a satisfactory stereo mix just can't be made from them.
Depends on how much of an audiophile and/or collector you are. If looking for a) optimal sound quality b) bonus tracks (including "Fever") c) liner notes then the answer would have to be "no, the twofer is not worth looking into." The best choice for Things Are Swingin' would be the previously mentioned Capitol Jazz CD, which was very satisfactorily mixed and mastered from the original three-track tapes. (As for the twofer version of Things Are Swingin', it does not make any disclosures as to its mastering process. We can safely assume, however, that the original tapes were not directly used. This is likelier to be a "flat transfer" of a British tape copy, several generations removed from the three-track tapes, no?) That having been said, there is nothing terrible about the twofer CD. It gives you all the original album tracks in unobjectionable sound quality, along with full-page reproductions of the original album's front and back covers. It's only when compared to other CD options that the twofer falters. Its sound is not as warm or vibrant, it lacks bonus tracks and new liner notes, brings no "Fever" into the equation, et cetera. Oh. Almost forgot. I said that there is nothing terrible about this twofer, but others might disagree: it includes one album in stereo and the other (Jump for Joy) in mono. Back when this CD came out, EMI was raked over the coals for their choice, probably to their surprise. (They might have not realized that their inability to use stereo would be found to be so offensive.) For our purposes, the point might be moot, though: Jump for Joy has as many pros (or cons) in stereo as its does in mono. Given the fact that copies are so affordable in the UK, Peopleareleaving, one option to consider would be getting a copy of the twofer now and (if you really like one of the two albums) an "updated" CD version in the future. Thank you both, too, for your kindness. I enjoyed researching the song. Glad that you pointed this out. The subject was in my mind while I was looking at the fine print in the image below. The word "problem" makes it sound as if something had gone awry at the session, when that's not what is going on.
PEGGY LEE ALBUM LIST I. Albums Discussed So Far 0. New American Jazz (Capitol, 1944) *post #13 - page 11. Rendezvous with Peggy Lee (Capitol, 1948)posts #253, #272, #282 - pages 11 & 122. Benny Goodman ...; Vocals By Peggy Lee (Columbia, 1948)post #293 - page 123. My Best to You (Capitol, 1950)posts #304, #306 - page 134. Capitol Presents ... Peggy Lee (Capitol, 1953)post #310 - page 135. Black Coffee with Peggy Lee (Decca, 1953 & 1956)posts #17, #18 - page 16. Songs in an Intimate Style (Decca, 1954)post #19 - page 17. Selections From Irving Berlin's White Christmas (Decca, 1954) **post #101 - page 58. Songs from Walt Disney's Lady and the Tramp (Decca, 1955 & 1957 )posts #22, #29 - pages 1 & 29. Songs From Pete Kelly's Blues (Decca, 1955)posts #45, #50, #51 - pages 2 & 310. Dream Street (Decca, 1957)posts #54, #63 - page 3 00. Sea Shells (Decca, 1958)posts #67, #71, #72, #79 - pages 3 & 400. Miss Wonderful (Decca, 1959)posts #80, #81 - page 400. Lover (Decca, 1964)posts #82, #85 - page 4 The Jazz Singer [related EP] post #82 - page 400. The Fabulous Peggy Lee (Decca, 1964)post #87 - page 400. The Best of Peggy Lee (Decca, 1964)post #144, fourth entry - page 6 II. Miscellaneous Bodies Of Work A. MacGregor Radio Transcriptions (1945) post #147 - page 6B. Capitol Radio Transcriptions (1946-1949)post #157 - page 7C. Snader Telescriptions (1950)post #168 - page 7D. World Radio Transcriptions (1955)post #159 - page 7E. Radio Shows with Bing Crosby (1946-1954)post #119 - page 5F. Own Radio Shows (1947-1952)post #193 - page 8 III. Notes * A various-artists album project, rather than a Peggy Lee album. Included as "ground zero" due to its importance. It's the first album to ever feature the recordings of Peggy Lee. ** A multiple-artists album project. Its main acts are Bing Crosby and Danny Kaye, but Peggy Lee is credited along with them, and she is heard in one third of the track program. IV. Explanations I am posting this list mostly to maintain a sense of continuity. In the last three pages, we have been discussing Peggy's album catalogue from the 1940s and early 1950s. (Chronologically, her Decca albums come next. It so happens, though, that we have already discussed those albums, in the early pages of this thread. The list above thus covers both early Capitol albums and ensuing LPs on Decca.) Next: We finally move on to Peggy's better-known albums, on Capitol, from the late 1950s through the 1960s.
Oh my goodness! Hearing Peggy Lee sing “Where or When” has opened up an amazing new universe! She is glorious. This is a great thread, thank you! BTW I am a huge fan of small ensembles, Sinatra’s Sextet Live in Paris being one of my favorite albums. Can any one recommend a good sounding CD with her Benny Goodman tracks? I’ve got my eye on a couple. Holy mother of pearl, as WC Fields used to say! — David I’m a huge fan of Sinatra’s Columbia years, so this is a marvelous discovery for me! Thanks @Ridin'High
I don't agree. I've always thought it sounded perfectly at home on Things are Swingin', and if I didn't know it wasn't on the original LP, I doubt I'd have ever guessed. I also consider "Fever" to be Exhibit A against the often-reported claim that Lee hated rock and roll. For all intents and purposes, her signature song is a jazz-rock fusion song (and a decade before that genre really existed at that).
Do you have a reference for the claim that Lee hated rock 'n' roll? I've never read that anywhere. "Fever" certainly has rock 'n' roll appeal, but I don't consider it to be an outright rock 'n' roll number. In fact, there is a performance on Things Are Swingin' that fits the definition of that genre much better, and that's "Alright, Okay, You Win".
Wow! So much to read on this thread since I last saw it. For some reason I haven't been getting alerts of new posts here. I'll catch up tomorrow. I didn't listen to 'My Best To You' as I'm not happy with the condition of my copy. It's badly distorted in places and has been played on a stylus from hell! I do have all the tracks elsewhere. 'Capitol Presents...' is probably the oldest record in my collection. Certainly in the top three. I also have Duke Ellington and Hank Williams 10" albums from around this time. My Peggy Lee one is in nice condition so I'll play it tomorrow as I catch up here. I do know I like this record.
Hmm... it's all interesting stuff as always, but it's gone well off track, jumping to discussing Things Are Swingin'. I know it's not my thread and certainly don't want to be coming across as rude or obnoxious, but personally I think it's best if the thread sticks to the album it's currently up to or previous ones, otherwise due to the vast amount Peggy albums there are, it could become disorganised or even a shambles! I will get one of those Capitol Jazz Things Are Swingin' CDs though, my LP is mono and I love this album.
I didn't say it was a well-supported claim (she was friends with Paul McCartney after all), but both biographies mention it several times, usually with the implication that it was just sour grapes because the changing styles had hurt her record sales.
Thank you for the wealth of information as it pertains to Peggy Lee. I just purchased a CD copy of Things Are Swingin'.
Welcome back! My copy of the 10" LP is in good shape, yet I doubt that I've ever played it more than two or three times, despite owning it for the last 20 years or so. To me, it's more of a collector's item, rather than an album to play with any regularity. So, even if my copy were in worse shape than it is, I'd still be perfectly happy with it. As you said, all its tracks are available elsewhere. The nice thing about this one is its inclusion of some 78-era songs that you will never find on LP otherwise -- like "Just a Shade on the Blue Side." I remember being totally taken aback when I first came across it, hardly believing the sight of those titles of which I had barely ever heard (being as they were from way back in the 78 era, and not on CD until recent years). The other nice about this album is, of course, how rare it is ... that is to say, rare to those of who live in the US. In the UK, I imagine that, over the decades, copies would easily show up at used record stores, despite the album's age. Here in the US, I never saw one. Didn't know that you also went for old-era jazz & country stuff, btw. You raise a valid point. And there's nothing rude or obnoxious about pointing this out. (I might be the OP, but I think of this thread as a "communal" one.) What's more: rest assured that you are not the only member who feels that way. However, I named the thread "Peggy Lee on Record" so that the Peggy discussion could freely flow in multiple directions. I feel that, if a visiting member has a question about a particular album or a particular topic, the best time to discuss such a question is right when it pops up. (On this particular occasion, it so happened that the question pertained to an album that the thread had yet to discuss.) Not to go at it ad nauseam, but there are two more points that I should take this opportunity to make: 1) this thread can be thought of as being divided into "formal" and "informal" posts. The formal post are the ones that I type in color (green and blue, for the most part). The informal posts (i.e., our discussions, comments, and so forth) are in "normal black." Hence, if anyone wants to stick to the more formal (or nerdier!) side of the equation, my overviews should be easy to locate across the pages. 2) I will be continuing with our ongoing in discussion of albums chronological order. In other words, those previous posts about Things Are Swingin' should not be taken to count as the formal overview of that album. We are not there yet. When we get there, there will be not only an overview of Things Are Swingin' but also a quoting of those previous posts, to further encourage discussion. Hope I haven't given anybody a headache with this long answer! Mum am I -- saving my reply for the "formal overview"!
Not in a big way, but I've always been an obsessive record collector and spent years during the 90s and 2000s looking around charity shops, car boot sales and markets etc. This was the era when a lot of cheap records were around. People were getting rid of them for CDs everywhere. There was no eBay or price guides then so old, unusual and rare records would show up often. I got very open minded with music then and just bought anything that looked interesting. I bought my first Duke Ellington LP (Piano In The Background) to stop it going in the bin! I knew that was wrong! I picked up my first Peggy Lee album as it was a pristine original stereo pressing of Beauty and the Beat in a charity shop. It was quite a long time before I bought more. Because of all this my tastes can go from Peggy, The Louvin Brothers, reggae, Stax & Atlantic soul, punk, glam rock, heavy metal etc etc with lots inbetween! I have literally thousands of LPs, 45s and CDs! If I wasn't buying records like this I'd have never bought things like Jimmy Lunceford & Lita Roza or possibly even more famous artists like Dinah Washington, Julie London, Duke Ellington, Nat King Cole, Django Reinhardt, lots of 60s pop or possibly even Peggy. It's all from decades before I was born! (1974). I feel that people like myself have to get these old records when they show up so the music is still appreciated and original pressings are still played and preserved in a collection. They are so nice when they are well looked after. Nothing else compares, it's a small piece of history. Anyway, I'll play Capitol Presents... later tonight.
You are quite welcome, and here's hoping that you'll enjoy the CD! David, it's good to see you visiting this thread (having caught some of your posts in other threads ... your Brother Karamazov handle always makes me pay attention). You ask about the Benny Goodman recordings, in particular, and single out "Where or When." Before you get a CD with the Goodman stuff, the one thing to consider is that the type of sound which you hear in "Where or When" is the exception to the rule. As already pointed out in one of the posts quoted above, big bands such as Goodman's were primarily interested in putting out danceable music. Even ballads had a danceable beat. In Goodman's 1930s and 1940s discography, the exceptions to the emphasis on a danceable beat tend to be numbers from special sessions that Goodman made with only quintets or sextets. "Where or When" was one of only a handful of sextet numbers in which Peggy was asked to participate. Besides the great music, another advantage of those sextet numbers is that the vocalist is given a little more freedom than in the big band, danceable numbers. In Peggy's case, my feeling is that the way she sang in "Where or When" is the way that she normally sang, before joining dance-oriented bands and having to conform to her bosses' demands. So: if you pursue the Goodman recordings, bear in mind that most of the numbers will bear little similarity to "Where or When" ... But do pick a CD that includes "The Way You Look Tonight," too, since her performance of that other standard qualifies as a sequel to "Where or When." In the last of the messages quoted above, three CDs are listed. Each of those CD sets contains Peggy's entire output with Goodman. If found at affordable prices, any of them would be good choices for anyone wanting to explore this early period of Peggy's career. The first is the official item, but, if unavailable or unaffordable, the other two seem to have essentially swiped the contents of the first, and should thus work out fine as alternatives.
I see it as a more relative matter. Paradoxically, I can easily agree that (a) it sounds at home on Things Are Swingin' (though not in this home's living room), while also agreeing that (b) it doesn't truly sound like the rest of the album. Go figure! I actually have more of an issue with the fact that the Capitol Jazz CD moves from the album's songs to "You Don't Know." Mind you: that's one of my very favorite Peggy interpretations. Nevertheless, in the context of this CD, I would've far preferred to have "Fever" sequenced right after the album's songs, leaving "You Don't Know" for the end. I have to confess that, for me (and as much as I love it), "Alright, Okay, You Win" is the one number that takes me out of the feel that the album is "all of a piece" ... I think I would have preferred to see it excluded from the album, and issued instead as the A side of a single, whose flip side could have been "You Don't Know" (from this same session). As long as I am making up scenarios, I would have also begged Peggy go to the studio to do a recording of the following performance, in order to feature it as the B side of "Fever":
Biographer claims should be taken with a grain of salt, as evidenced by your statement. I cannot think of another classic pop vocalist who was able to navigate the changing musical landscape as deftly as Peggy Lee. Her artistry was coupled with a desire to remain current, and if there were mixed results in such endeavors, Peggy might have been disappointed although I can't believe that her condition would be that of sour grapes.
Mine too, specifically this version. Interesting point I had not considered. I suppose the compilation producer wanted the reissue to finish with the "big hit" of the sessions, but I'm inclined to agree that placing "You Don't Know" as the final selection would allow for a smoother transition to the bonus tracks. Agreed. The instrumentation is identical to the other selections, but the style and sentiment are less so. Since we are pairing "Alright, Okay, You Win" with "You Don't Know", and "Fever" with that fabulous new arrangement of "Baubles, Bangles and Beads", what should we have Peggy record for the 12th track of Things Are Swingin'? ... Incidentally, a Cole Porter tune came to mind. I think Peggy would have a lot of fun swinging it on this album. I consulted the song index at the discography and to my surprise, there isn't a Peggy Lee performance of this well-known standard, which causes more intrigue! How about we replace "Alright, Okay, You Win" with "Easy To Love" on the album?
