Peter Gabriel - Best Digital Masterings?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by tlake6659, Dec 22, 2008.

  1. cpaqf1

    cpaqf1 Active Member

    question regarding the 2002 remastered CDs & SACD. Do all the SACDs beat the CDs ?
     
  2. c-eling

    c-eling They're made of light,We never would have guessed

    The SACD's use the remasters, "UP" had a special 5.1 mix, so I guess it's a matter of personal taste or hearing the difference if the 24/88 sounds better than the 16/44 of the same master :)
     
  3. cpaqf1

    cpaqf1 Active Member

    oh that's easier then, does that apply to Shaking the tree as well cause I remember reading that some people didn't like the SACD but liked the CD ?
     
  4. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    The SACDs aren't 24bit/88kHz resolution since they are true DSD (but it is accepted as the closest PCM resolution to DSD, although I found 24/176 is closer).

    I think the SACD layers sound better than the CD layers. And I think the CD layers could be more compressed or even EQ'd slightly differently.
    In short I think the SACDs sound better than their corresponding remastered CDs.
     
  5. cpaqf1

    cpaqf1 Active Member

    thanks to both of you :)
     
  6. c-eling

    c-eling They're made of light,We never would have guessed

    Yeah that's right DSD forgot. thanks 9 for the clarification, Sold all mine I prefer the old masters :)
     
  7. MusicalHeaven

    MusicalHeaven Well-Known Member

    So why are the V/C's considered better than the original Geffens? I can't imagine the difference being anything but negligible.
     
  8. Matty

    Matty Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    There are no "neglible" differences at this forum! We are obsessives! By definition, if two discs have different masterings, then one invariably "smokes" or "destroys" the other! Or, at the very least, a veil is lifted!

    Seriously, the only comparison I've ever made between the US and UK Gabriel CDs was for PG3, and I didn't hear much of a difference. But that was pre-SH.TV (late 90s); my ears are probably more attuned to mastering differences now.
     
    Ulli and scobb like this.
  9. curbach

    curbach Some guy on the internet

    Location:
    The ATX
    The mind boggles. . .
     
    kevin5brown likes this.
  10. Matty

    Matty Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I don't think that MusicalHeaven's question was unreasonable, actually. After more than five years and 230 posts, this thread still consists mostly of EAC values and vague comments ("I like the original UK discs best") that don't give any specific information about the degree and nature of any differences in sound. For me, the most useful post in whole thread by far is Foobar's nice comparison of the V/C and US discs in post 162.
     
  11. MusicalHeaven

    MusicalHeaven Well-Known Member

    Agreed. The reason I bumped it so that more specific information about any differences in sound could possibly be added. This thread is severely lacking in what the title was actually asking "Best Digital Masterings". Instead we got the answer to "How many different digital masterings?" It would be nice for the thread to finally address the former.
     
  12. Plan9

    Plan9 Mastering Engineer

    Location:
    Toulouse, France
    IV (Security) : WG target
    For III (Melt), we know the V/C is peak limited whereas the Geffen isn't. I think the SACD with inverted phase sounds best.
    For So, there is a 2012 remaster: the CD version is very compressed. The Hi-Res, much less. I think the SACD sounds better than both. I haven't compared it to older masterings.
     
  13. George P

    George P Notable Member

    Location:
    NYC
    Thanks for posting this! :wave:
     
  14. fumi

    fumi Forum Resident

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I think the 32VD sets are fine unless you have an SACD player.
     
  15. Yost

    Yost “It’s only impossible until it’s not”

    I'm chiming in a bit late. I notice that you're using track 1 as an example of clipping on the black triangle. That's the only track on that disc that reaches 100% peak. How about the 3 tracks on the Target that have 100% peaks? Aren't they clipped somewhere?
     
  16. bcaulf

    bcaulf Forum Resident

    Hi everyone. I read through this thread and I was surprised to see little comments about Peter Gabriel II, because there is something a little wrong with it, at least the copy I have, I think. I bought the cd online so long ago and I've sold it back since I burned it to my computer so I don't know which pressing it was but there's something about the sound that has always bothered me. Looking at the peak levels it seems like it's the Atlantic pressing, because the problem I noticed was that On The Air sounds fine, but then D.I.Y. comes in at a much louder volume and the overall sound of the track isn't as "boomy" sounding as On The Air. In fact the track sounds so loud that I have to turn the volume down a little when it comes on. It's not like a slight volume increase either, it's so much louder that I feel like it'll make my ears bleed and it's a little odd to me that this would pass on a cd. I feel like what I had could have been doctored in some way, I don't know, but looking at the peak levels of the Atlantic, track 1 looks to be a whole 10 db lower than track 2. I do know that On The Air peaks considerably when the synth section kicks in, but it starts sounding kind of soft and stuffy, then D.I.Y. kicks in and it sounds so different.

    Does anybody know what's going on with this? Am I the only one that thinks that there is a huge difference between the two tracks, sound and volume wise? If I remember correctly the rest of the album follows sounding more like D.I.Y. I apologize that I can't fill you guys in on what pressing it was, it was so many years ago :confused:
     
  17. c-eling

    c-eling They're made of light,We never would have guessed

    On the Target, one instance on Shock, may be considered clipped, all other tracks are below 0, six tracks are 100%
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2014
  18. fredhammersmith

    fredhammersmith Forum Resident

    Location:
    Montreal, Quebec
    I was curious to do some follow-up on your post, since I own the Atlantic CD 19181, and I always loved the way DIY is following On The Air with that big fat bass sound...
    I noticed, looking at the peak levels from my EAC rip, the difference between the two (89.2 vs 99.6%), and yes, it sounds pretty different, EQ wise, a bit harsh for the DIY track.
    I would be curious to hear other masterings.

    Thie is the waveform of both tracks, with the cursor right at the beginning of DIY.

    [​IMG]

    This is the EQ of both tracks, On The Air being in green, DIY in red. Not sure if it is of any help, more knowledgeable members may have an opinion.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. bcaulf

    bcaulf Forum Resident

    Phew! So it's not just me. I'm surprised nobody else has brought this up, it's a pretty big mastering flaw if you ask me, I wonder if the LP does the same thing? And yes, I also wonder how the V/C mastered by Nimbus compares. It sounds fine at the beginning of the track but once Gabriel's voice comes in it's like the music is screaming at me.

    Thanks for the waveforms, fred. The second graph helps me see it. I didn't bother to ask before because quite frankly, PG II didn't get played very much :p
     
  20. Yost

    Yost “It’s only impossible until it’s not”

    If you're responding to my post please note I'm talking about IV/Security:
    I was wrong typing it had 3 tracks at 100%. According to EAC levels posted earlier, it has 4 tracks at 100% and one at 99.9.

    Btw. I found clipping on my Kate Bush black triangles, but they sound very good to my ears. Actually, they're the best masters of her albums that I've heard.
     
    c-eling likes this.
  21. Matty

    Matty Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I have a copy of the Virgin CD (PGCD2), and it's exactly the same -- "D.I.Y." is much too loud. I've long wondered if it was just a problem with the V/C; apparently it's not. The long fade at the end of "On The Air" probably accentuates the problem -- one's ear gradually gets used to the slow fade to silence, and then BOOM.

    I too am curious if the same is true of the original LP.
     
  22. bcaulf

    bcaulf Forum Resident

    I actually believed at first that I had the V/C (recently looking at the disc and back cover on discogs it matched what I remember having at the time) but looking at the peak levels made me think otherwise because both tracks look to have the same peak levels from what people have posted. Glad I know that now. Thanks for the information. Hopefully somebody with the LP can chime in because would indeed be interested in knowing if it matches :)
     
  23. HiFi Guy 008

    HiFi Guy 008 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    I've mentioned this before.
    The remaster of IV is very good.
    BUT - there's one drawback.
    The Rhythm Of The Heat - which sounds great on the remaster - is missing one major thing.
    The last drumbeat on the orig vinyl and cd is a huge THWAK! Making one jump if not hearing it before.
    This is not the case on the remaster.
     
  24. curbach

    curbach Some guy on the internet

    Location:
    The ATX
    Are you saying the drum beat is not there on the remaster or that it is there, but the impact has been reduced (presumably due to some sort of compression/limiting in the mastering)?
     
  25. HiFi Guy 008

    HiFi Guy 008 Forum Resident

    Location:
    New England
    Yup. The compression ruins the impact (but not the song).
    This is probably one of the best examples of dynamic range - and how it - or the lack thereof - affects the music.
    The last drumbeat, a dramatic WHACK!! is reduced to just another drumbeat on the remaster.
     

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