It was. I made a descent profit without gouging, kept them fair and affordable. The only regret I have is selling off UP, the 5.1 was rather interesting.
The first four albums are fairly better sounding despite being very close in volume to the 2002 remasters. I think they are new transfers. I believe that starting with So they are identical to the latest remasters (2012 for So).
Thanks for the nice report, Matt. I posted similar results regarding the Target and 2002 cd remaster a while ago. Interesting that you found the same thing regarding Rhythm Of The Heat. While I like the over sound of the 2002 cd remaster on that track, the WG Target (haven't compared the UK Charisma yet) has much more dynamic pow! This is most noticeable on the very last beat of the song. On the original Target, it almost hits you in the face. On the remaster they've toned it down to sound like all of the other drum beats. And I suspect intentionally. Some might have found that last thwack a little jarring. Now before I compare to the Charisma tonight, I'm going to listen to the Japan black triangle. Which seems to have a unique mastering: (I rounded the peak levels to save time typing) 100/55/72/69/92/87/62/93
Off topic- While you're here HiFi, thanks for pointing out that 4ad 12inch comp, received one a couple days ago
Yes, I agree with you about the dynamics of the target - it shares that characteristic with the Virgin/Charisma (and I'm sure the Japan black triangle too). The remaster is quite dynamic in its own right, but it definitely evens out the volume to a degree and robs the album of some of its most dramatic/jarring moments.
Well, I might have found a new variant - and it is not a pleasant surprise! I just paid a bit more than I wanted for a blue-face Virgin/Charisma - but I just ripped it and it turns out it has the West German Target mastering, not the PGCD4/blue-face mastering. The disc and inserts are the same as this one on discogs: Peter Gabriel - Peter Gabriel The only difference is that mine also has "Made in U.K." on the righthand side of the disc face, beneath the PGCD4 and the little Charisma logo. The runout matrix is 800 091-2 04 # - which is very similar to the 800 091-2 02 and 03 variants on the target CD. But since the only entry on discogs with a blue-face, narrow plastic hub, and "Made in U.K." printing on the disc was this one: Peter Gabriel - Peter Gabriel ... I thought for sure that I had the right one. Did anyone else here even know of the existence of blue-face PGCD4 V/C CDs that do not have the true PGCD4 mastering? Not a big deal of course, but irritating nonetheless...
The person who might know is member mscoll, but I see that he has not been on the Forum since Feb. He is a big Phil Collins and Genesis collector. Not sure whether he also collects Gabriel. Here is his website: Home | Phil Collins and Genesis CD Library Maybe you can contact him, as he knows a lot about all these pressing variations.
So you're looking for this mastering Matt? Album details - Dynamic Range Database I need to pull out my WG and compare it to the old US DADC again. I think the US may be just a level shift (louder)
Yes, that's the one. I was under the impression that all V/C PGCD4 blue face CDs had this mastering. Now it appears that all the Made in Holland blue-faces have it, but only some of the WG/UK ones do. The key is the matrix, which makes buying one online kind of a nightmare. Based on the peak levels posted earlier in this thread, I don't believe any of the four 1980s masterings of this CD is a level-shift of any of the others. I think they're all different, unique masterings. The Geffen DADC peak levels do follow the general contours of the UK/Holland V/C peak levels, but the level shifts are not consistent from track to track, so either the DADC level-shifts the V/C track by track - or much more likely, it's just a different mastering.
Good info, thanks. As much as I love Gabriel I never really tried sourcing all the variants available, well except for So, good grief
I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure that any copy of this CD whose matrix is 800-091-2 is the Target mastering. I thought I saw a "5" variant of the matrix somewhere on discogs during my recent searches, but I can't find it now.
My copy Blue Face Manufactured in Holland (on disc) with 00777 7 86370 2 8 (on disc) Matrix: 786370 2 @ 3 (2-1-13 NL) with an ifpi 15?? Matches this entry posted;
I stand corrected, I checked in a hurry. Mine is a PDO, PGCD 4 10086221 05% My apologies for the confusion.
Yes, I believe the "PGCD 4..." and "786370..." matrixes are both the UK/Holland Virgin/Charisma mastering. BTW, I've since listened to the Japan black triangle and the Geffen DADC masterings. Japan black triangle = . Geffen DADC = not so much (IMHO). The Japan black triangle is an interesting one: it's got really nice, tight bass. The entire thing is really smooth, almost syrupy, and yet I would not describe it as lacking clarity. I'm not as big of an early Japan CD fan as some here, but I must say this one is really nice. I don't know that I'd rank it above the Virgin/Charisma, but I'd certainly rank it equally, just different.
This seems to tell me that the first batch of "Made in UK" bluefaces were actually made in Germany for the UK market.
Yes, I was thinking that too: The bluefaces that have the wrong mastering share a matrix with the West German target (and the West German non-blue-face Charisma) - and the only bluefaces that don't have a barcode on the rear insert are some of the ones with the "wrong" mastering and the WG matrix. So yes, the earliest bluefaces appear to have been pressed in Germany - which is really weird because my CD says "Made in the UK" right on it. That would not be especially unusual if it re-used an earlier disc face design, but since my blueface appears to be the earliest blueface, that means they started the disc-face design with an inaccurate country of manufacture printed on the disc. Perhaps they did the artwork anticipating pressing them in the UK but there were delays in getting the first plant(s) online and so they ended up having to use Polygram in West Germany unexpectedly?
Maybe it was a delay but my guess is: that was just a marketing shortcut. It's not unusual to find inaccuracies on CD's labels of those days. I think I saw something similar on other bluefaces, Mike Oldfield's perhaps? German CDs "made in UK"
You would have to see if you locate the mold/mould code to see the country of manufacture. A UK disc could use German-made stampers, so the disc matrix codes would be identical. Is there one or more Lxxx codes?
True, but wasn't much more common for plants to make their own new stampers back then? Also, this matrix variant seems to be unique to the made for UK / made in UK discs (as far as I understand) so a new stamper was made nevertheless.
The early V/C bluefaces were all made in WG (for the UK) and had mirrored centers. Later ones had clear centers and sometimes used the same mastering but not always. That Gabriel CD is not the only exception. First blueface for PGCD4: Discogs
I was considering your earlier comment: "The runout matrix is 800 091-2 04 # - which is very similar to the 800 091-2 02 and 03 variants on the target CD." Not impossible to think that they made a number of glass masters with similar codes, and then farmed the stampers out. As for whether it was more common for plants to make their own glass masters. I couldn't tell you. There would be costs involved in both scenarios, and I guess it would come down to what was the cheaper option, given the likely low sales numbers in the early days of CD.
