Phil Collins Album by Album thread

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by mark winstanley, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    I suppose this is a cover.

    ----

    EDIT

    I just remembered that I saw it in the remaster's extras and asked what it was up-thread.
    My memory is a Swiss cheese :doh:
     
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  2. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Mine too brother lol
     
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  3. Ryan Lux

    Ryan Lux Senior Member

    Location:
    Toronto, ON, CA
    This one means a lot to him, as he still plays it. To my ears, it sounds unfinished, like an early demo. Perhaps if it was a solo piano version, it would have been better. This arrangement is in his “One More Night” style but 9 years later doesn’t sound fresh anymore. It’s rare that an artist I love is so fond of an album that doesn’t work much for me at all. IMHO, he needed to either bring in a new songwriting collaborator or take a break and find some new influences.
     
  4. MikeVielhaber

    MikeVielhaber Forum Resident

    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    Which part do you think should be a harmonica? Are you talking about the main riff? If so, for what it's worth, it is played on a guitar live. So I don't think he was going for a harmonica sound on that.
    It's even mimed on the music video by guitar.
     
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  5. MikeVielhaber

    MikeVielhaber Forum Resident

    Location:
    Memphis, TN


    Here is the live version from the extras disc of the remaster.
     
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  6. MikeVielhaber

    MikeVielhaber Forum Resident

    Location:
    Memphis, TN


    Here's a cover version by John Martyn that Phil helped out with.
     
  7. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    That's fair.
    I wasn't being critical of the song, it sounds really nice. It just sounded like it was a synthetic harmonica sound, and I just figured that a real harp would have fit nicely..... it actually sounds a little Stevie Wonder(ish) to me
     
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  8. Melllvar

    Melllvar No Matter Where You Go, There You Are!

    Location:
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Both Sides of the Story

    I vaguely remember hearing this on the radio and came off indifferent towards it. I was really burned out on Phil at this point. Older and wiser me, likes it. Listening to it on headphones, love the drum stool creak followed by the loud boom of Phil's drumming and hey, I can't help air drumming along with the song.

    Overall, it sounds like a Sting or PG style track. I'm not going to complain, it's a great tune to get the album underway.
     
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  9. tug_of_war

    tug_of_war Unable to tolerate bass solos

    I really like this song, a quite poweful intro for the album. Great lyrics, nice arrangements. It's really cool to hear Phil strumming a guitar.
     
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  10. tug_of_war

    tug_of_war Unable to tolerate bass solos

    I always enjoyed the synths on this album, specially the tones used for the chords. They add to the atmosphere.

    On the other hand, I never cared for some of the solos and riffs sounds - except for the fake acoustic guitar on "We Fly So Close". I always thought it would be better if he asked someone to play an harp.

    As for "Can't Turn Back The Years" now that you mentioned, it really sounds like a "harmonica-wanna-be". But then again, I think an harmonica would sound out of place here, because it's all synths. Even the drums are synthetic. It's like a mellow synth pop song that contrasts nicely with the organic sounds (real drums, guitars) of the previous track.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
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  11. Blame The Machines

    Blame The Machines Forum Resident

    Location:
    Swindon
    Can't Turn Back The Years

    I really like this track. I admire the intimate, ornate homespun polished demo feel of the track which perfectly match the confessional lyrics within.
     
  12. tug_of_war

    tug_of_war Unable to tolerate bass solos

    I like it better than the studio version, despite the poor recording quality.
     
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  13. Blame The Machines

    Blame The Machines Forum Resident

    Location:
    Swindon
    Rad Dudeski

    I likeable big band prog rock swing number. Nothing wrong with this instrumental. It is certainly not a chore to listen to. I could easily imagine it used in a film score.

    Always

    I have the live version of his cover of the Irving Berlin song from his 2004 released Love Songs: A Compilation... Old and New. Which I prefer to this. It is obviously a great song, but I don't feel Phil did this song justice. I felt his version was a bit too twee & tentative; and his vocal delivery was slightly stilted. I feel Harry Nilsson covered it far better:




     
  14. mark winstanley

    mark winstanley Certified dinosaur, who likes physical product Thread Starter

    Fair call
     
  15. MikeVielhaber

    MikeVielhaber Forum Resident

    Location:
    Memphis, TN


    This is the one on the But Seriously extras. My guess is this is the same version as the Both Sides b-side.
     
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  16. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    Both Sides Of The Story

    I have vague recollections of seeing the music video, possibly even before hearing the single at the radio. Those were the MTV days.
    It was an acquired taste to me. Especially the chorus. I liked it but, so it seems to me retrospectively, at least partially because I wanted to.
    It certainly didn't prompt me to run to the shop and buy the album.

    Slightly unusual structure here.
    Something like: (a)A-(a)A-B-(a)A-B-A(a1 ad lib).
    Basically three sections, repeating: a pre-verse instrumental that becomes the "Both Sides Of The Story" (same harmony as the verse) and also serves as the coda; a verse; a chorus that almost sounds like an extended bridge; no bridge, solo or breakdown.
    Despite the limited structure, the song is quite long and musically ends up being a bit repetitive.
    The chorus has somewhat a hybrid nature.

    The only variety to this scheme is provided by a variation in the ending bit of the verse leading to the chorus and by the omission of the chorus itself at the last iteration.
    All the rest is left to the arrangement and the vocal performance.

    The song has both good and bad in it (as it happens for most of the album), where the "bad" relies mostly in the sound palette.
    The sound is weirdly marred by the guitar tone/part (true of sampled it might be) and by the fake bagpipes.
    Ok, I tell myself. Mike Oldfield too uses fake badpipes too sometimes, and you never complained.
    True
    , I reply to myself; but the rest of the arrangement is more elaborated and rich.

    All that said, it is a strong starter and had the album more tracks in this vein and energy, it would certainly be more balanced.
    This is the new instance in the drum driven kind of songs like I Don't Care Anymore o Take Me Home. Traditional Phil.
    I like the drums. Maybe a tad on the harsh side, but a warmer sound wouldn't fit in the sort-of-wall-of-sound arrangement, it would be buried.
    I like how the last verse tones down and reverts to the drum machine loop that was the original base of the demo.

    Looking closely, lyrics are not that different in their setting from the political ones of the previous album: there's still some rather formulaic imagery accompanied by little preachy "moral".
    Anyway, the real point here is that, putting the song in context, I can't avoid reading the appeal the song makes as a metaphor for the disconnection from his wife and thee need of "his side of the story" (ex sweetheart and all) to be understood. So I see the song as a relative to ITAT or The Roof Is Leaking, an apparent independent narrative that is, in fact, talking about feelings.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
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  17. tug_of_war

    tug_of_war Unable to tolerate bass solos

    Phil did play the guitar.
     
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  18. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    To me the problem is not that he makes an album by himself (others do) but that he's not experienced in that autarchy and he's not a keyboardist or a synth master.
    True, there are some limitations in the musical elements in themselves, but the greatest problem is, I think, that as a (self)producer, he's still half stuck into the scheme he always used, which worked great but employed proper musicians and instruments.
    He arranges with the real thing in mind, then uses cheap samples and debatable performances.
    One basic rule in electronic music is: if you don't have a good sound, you don't use it. A nylon guitar, sax, whatever instrument has a complicated and rich in harmonics/dynamics sound will sound ridiculous when sampled to a keyboard (maybe now it's a little better and in future it will be even better, but it was true back then for sure).

    The pad synths work fine because they do exactly the job they are supposed to, they don't try to mimic something else.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
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  19. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    So I remembered but I couldn't find any support to that in the booklet.
     
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  20. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic

    I’m 99% sure it’s all keyboard; in fact I’m 99% sure that 99% of what you hear on this album apart from the real drums is keyboards of some sort. *

    It’s the thing that stops this album being a proper top-tier favourite for me, the keyboard sounds are just a teeny bit too cheesy.

    *I think even the bagpipes are keyboards; although bizarrely enough he did actually learn to play bagpipes around this time and if memory serves, even played “Amazing Grace” on them in the encore of the Wembley show I saw on the tour (my first ever gig!)
     
  21. LivingForever

    LivingForever Forum Arachibutyrophobic

    I’d love to find something to prove one of us right!

    I’m pretty sure he didn’t. Mining it badly in a video means nothing... ;)
     
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  22. The_Windmill

    The_Windmill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Italy
    Bagpipes sound definitely fake to me!
     
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  23. tug_of_war

    tug_of_war Unable to tolerate bass solos

    Just what I said. Only with more words.
     
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  24. tug_of_war

    tug_of_war Unable to tolerate bass solos

    Well, he claims to have played guitar on the liner notes. If he didn't, then it's a lie.
    What a shame, Phil.
     
  25. MikeVielhaber

    MikeVielhaber Forum Resident

    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    On the next album he is properly credited with playing guitar instead of "all instruments" on Both Sides. He can play guitar so I'm not sure why he couldn't put down some chords.
     

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