Phono Stages

I just bought the Cambridge Alva Duo preamp new for $198 ($-101 discount). And QED Performance Graphite cables (1m RCA-RCA, 1.5 m RCA-Jack, 1.5m USB A-B). I don't know much about pF and capacitance, but I hope the music will sound better than with the actual no-name cables I replaced.

 

That's why I bought a multimeter on Amazon, boutique brands of cables often have high capacitance and will wit share that information.

 

Maybe I'm very lucky. I use the phono amp built into my Sony TA-E9000ES Pre-Pro. It's specs suggest it matches the needs of my Shure V15V-MR and indeed the results indicate for the most part I cannot distinguish CDs from LPs of same content, that's to say, the tone from both mediums is about the same. This makes me believe I do not need a feature laden preamp to get all there is to get from my particular MM cartridge. At any rate, some review over 20 years ago suggested my Sony Pre-Pro's phono amp was just adequate. I think the review was inadequate. It all makes me wonder why some folks are driven to buy expensive adjustable phono amps when their cartridge is a MM design which matches some of the simpler phono amps out there today like the Schiit Mani?

 

Got a panning by that measurement site. I've heard other comments it uses some odd component choices.

Follow Up: Lounge Audio LCR Mk III measurements

 

My built in is decent but I'd eventually like to run seperates and ditch the av reciever.

 

Anyone have experience with both Reflex M and Lehmann Black Cube Se II?

 

Measurements vs sound is a very complex debate. Herb Reichert also gave it a very positive review and he's great with budget gear.

 

Haven't heard the Lehmann but their models come up used often, which is good if you're looking to save some money. If you look at Miller Audio Research, they measured the Black Cube SE II several years back and the measurements look pretty good as far as I can tell. One thing to keep in mind, is that these models are two totally different designs with different goals for the end user. If you need a switchable gain unit in one box for swapping MM/MC carts on a regular basis, then you would probably want the Lehmann.

 

In this particular case, not really. There are certain specific things a phono preamp needs to do if it is designed properly, which that particular unit failed to do. The threshold to get "good" performance out of a phono preamp is a quite a bit lower than say a DAC, so there is no excuse for bad measurements on a phono preamp.

 

At this point in my HiFI journey not looking at swapping all the time, currently just sticking with MM

 

Right, I made a conscious decision to stick with MM carts for the foreseeable future as budget MCs don't interest me and the performance of most of them aren't up to my standards. So that is why I bought what I did. No regrets, been about a year now since I've had my GS Reflex. The other preamps I've had all had something or other I didn't like about them.

 

Newbie here...figured I try to add this question in here, rather than start a new thread - seems applicable.

So I've been out 0f vinyl for many years - finally decided to get back in. Have some old 70's records, plus picked up a few new pressings.
My receiver is a Pio Elite SC-LX801. Front speakers are B&W CM8 S2's.
Here's my question - I have an U-Turn Orbit on order - coming with Ortofon 2M Blue. So I haven't played anything yet.

I'm definitely going to start with using the built-in Phono in the Pio A/V receiver. Just looking for general opinions - do folks think that will be fine, or think in the near future I'm going to want/need to invest in a dedicated Phono? Anyone else using Pio Elite A/V w/the built-in phono? Problems?

I'll follow up once I get the TT - hopefully in ~2 weeks. U-Turn delayed shipping due to having to shut down

 

My experience is that the phono stage is probably the most overlooked part of the chain. You are ahead of the curve for a newbie just for asking the question.

You’ll most likely get a bump in performance with a quality outboard phono stage. That said, I’d try the Orbit with your Pioneer first. If you like it, roll with it and buy more records. Better yet, buy a record cleaning device of some sort. Clean records sound better.

 

Ended up grabbing a Graham Slee era gold v used for around half of retail a few months back. Really improved the clarity and depth of my system.

 

Do you think the MoFi could be pushed to 5? I know you spoke with MoFi on the overloading issue, did they tell you 4?

 

They didn't give me a specific number. They did tell me in no uncertain terms that the 6.5mV output of the Goldring 1042 was simply too high for the Studio Phono and would overload one of the gain stages. I would stick with 4mV as the max because that is a safe number. The trouble with 5mV is you don't know if that is the real spec of the cartridge or the output is actually higher, which happens with some brands. You could try it and see what your results are. What I would really like to see is a detailed bench test of the unit, and/or for them to update the unit with the 34dB gain setting as I discussed with them. FWIW, I think it's a good sounding unit overall, you just need to be aware of its limitations.

 

+1 for the Era Gold. I just received mine last night and am extremely pleased. It's presenting the music with a rich spaciousness that I've been trying to develop in my system. It's so good that it took me a moment to realize I hadn't turned my sub back on. Thank you, Graham Slee!

 

An old NAD 3020 got me back into vinyl in a big way, and when I scored a still useable Linn ASAK MC cart for $50, I got a Project Phonobox S to run it.

I know this is a cheap unit, but it never captivated me. And the MC stage was noisy. And the settings all sounded the same, even on MM carts.

The higher up Projects are most likely better units, but I have never really liked the sound of OP amp units. If the RS and Tubebox use them, I would avoid them, personally.

I bit the bullet and got a Benz Micro MC preamp, and have never looked back. And for MM, I am happy with another old NAD (3140), until I try to build a true tube phono stage.

I second the motion to spend a bit for a good phono stage. Ideally, a dedicated MC, with a decent cart. And a better tonearm, which I am slowly learning is more important than even the cartridge (just put a Grace 707 on an old Mission 775 and it sounds fantastic).

Try a new tonearm first?

 

I just bought one too can't wait for it to arrive Saturday. Did you get the PSU-1 with it or are you using the wall plug? The PSU-1 alone run $250!

 

Yes, I did get the PSU-1 it's a must have imo

 

Nice! What did u get it for if you don't mind me asking? I got mine for $430 all in but there is a rattle in the PSU that I need to checkout. Hopefully it's just a piece of plastic or a loose nut.

Also fun fact if you ever want to upgrade to current spec (Reflex M or C) G.S. offer a DIY board swap for ~$220, u can also add a mono switch which is easy to add. You can even switch to a MC cartridge and change from MM to MC with the upgrade if you go with the Reflex C board.

 

I think $600 Canadian.

That's great to know! I was not looking forward to having to sell. Glad I can just upgrade to MC with minimal effort.

 

Yeah that's what sold me on the G.S. compared to other alternatives. The upgrade replaces the entire PCB so in effect it is a brand new amp using the existing case. Reach out to John [email protected] if you ever want to make the upgrade.

I also plan on adding the mono switch as well which is a small cost $10 plus shipping.

I plan on auditioning the Gold for awhile then trying the Reflex M using the US loaner program to see if there is an improvement. Not sure if Canada has a similar program.

 

Info on the Canada program:

Canadian Loaner Program - Graham Slee Audio Forum | HiFi System Components

 

The importance of the power supply in a phono stage just cannot be overstated, IMHO. A wall wart can only take you so far.

There are aftermarket power supplies for numerous phono preamps but I doubt they compare to the option offered by Slee.

Now if only I could change his mind on subsonic filters...