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Pink Floyd Animals in 5.1

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by rontoon, Apr 16, 2018.

  1. Vaughan

    Vaughan Forum Resident

    Essex, UK
    Fair enough. I've never had a problem with them myself, but then again, I've just grown accustomed to things....
    Oliver, mark winstanley and vonwegen like this.
  2. edfom

    edfom Forum Resident

    A remix of Animals would be fine, but in my opinion there's nothing wrong with the sound of that album and there's nothing to fix. I'd still love a remix that represents how it was performed live.
    Remy, RangerXT, hiterss and 2 others like this.
  3. Funky Meadows

    Funky Meadows Forum Resident

    The drum sound on Animals could have been a bit more 'present', I suppose.

    Animals contained a lot of (if not the most of) Gilmour's aggressive guitar-work. It would have been nice had the drum-work followed suit.

    Having said that, I still absolutely love this album. I play it often.
    Oliver, ThirdBowl, pinkrudy and 3 others like this.
  4. snkcube

    snkcube Forum Resident

    San Francisco, CA
    It's not an exaggeration. James Guthrie described the condition of The Wall's multitrack tapes back when they were releasing the immersion editions. At this point, it's likely that the tapes have been successfully repaired and transferred to digital files.

    Is Pink Floyd's The Wall Immersion edition going to have a 5.1 Surround Mix?

    James: My understanding is that EMI plan to stick to their release schedule for the 'Why Pink Floyd?' campaign, which means there wouldn't be time to include a 5.1 mix in 'The Wall' Immersion Box. I will be doing a 5.1 mix of The Wall for release on SACD, but we don't have a planned release date for that yet. The original multitrack tapes are in pretty bad shape, so the project will take some time. I'm currently working on a Blu-ray release of 'The Wall' Movie.

    By "the original multitrack tapes being in pretty bad shape" - are you referring to the Ampex (or other brand) reel tapes manufactured post 1978 that can gum up tape machines and shed magnetic oxide?

    James: Yes. Half-way (ish) through the 70s, and unbeknownst to all of us in the studio world, the tape manufacturers changed the formula of the glue that bonds the oxide to the backing of the tape. I'm told that the original glue contained whale oil, so they had to change to a synthetic oil and that synthetic oil unfortunately causes the glue to break down over time, producing a gummy substance that seeps through the oxide making the tapes unplayable. Fortunately, a bright spark bravely discovered that you could bake the tapes and then safely play them a few times. But, that's not the only challenge when it comes to restoration - Edits, or tape splices, and the breakdown of the glue in the splicing tape that holds those edits together, have caused huge problems. I made hundreds of edits on both the 2" and the ¼” tapes of 'The Wall', so you start to get an idea of how time-consuming the restoration can be.

    Additionally, there was a manufacturing period of 2 or 3 years where the tapes were particularly unstable. Of course, they appeared fine at the time. Both 'The Wall' and 'The Final Cut' albums are recorded on the peak of that bad tape.

    Are any other Floyd multitrack tapes, in your experience, suffering from this particular problem?

    James: Everything after 1976 or 1977 is susceptible to the problem. Even the tape we are using now. And it's not just the multitrack tapes that are affected – the ¼” and ½” masters are in the same predicament.

    Source: Pink Floyd news :: Brain Damage - Pink Floyd's Wish You Were Here: SACD review and interviews including James Guthrie
  5. Funky Meadows

    Funky Meadows Forum Resident

    Guthrie : I made hundreds of edits on both the 2" and the ¼” tapes of 'The Wall', so you start to get an idea of how time-consuming the restoration can be.

    <Hundreds of edits?> C'mon!!
  6. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Bay Area, U.S.A.
    Why not? How many do you think there should be?

    I once asked a classical music producer how many edits there would be per hour of music. His answer was typically 600, though that can go up to 2,000 in some cases. So, I would not be at all surprised that there are hundreds of edits across a double album.
    RangerXT, Bill Mac, aphexj and 3 others like this.
  7. Funky Meadows

    Funky Meadows Forum Resident

    Okay, good point. I had no idea that there would / could be hundreds of edits, per any album.

    When I think about "edits", I'm thinking of "splices" on the master tape. Am I wrong in my understanding, here?
  8. Black Elk

    Black Elk Music Lover

    Bay Area, U.S.A.
  9. Anthrax

    Anthrax Forum Resident

    And even if the "hundreds" is only an approximate number.... Does anyone really need to know the precise, accurate number?

    Whenever an expression like that is used I take it to mean that there were a whole lot of edits. The actual number doesn't really matter.
    mark winstanley likes this.
  10. aphexj

    aphexj Sound mind & body

    Considering that "Comfortably Numb" alone is composed of two entirely different backing track takes, spliced together on 2" at each chorus/verse, and also the 1/4" tape of elements like the 'wild' TV chatter and other sound effects were edited into loops and flown in at various points during mixdown, and each song was mixed separately before being cross-faded with yet more edits to sew them together — hundreds of edits is probably not far off the mark
  11. Larry C. McGinnis III

    Larry C. McGinnis III Tina Cole and The Four King Cousins fan

    I guess people just think albums like these are made in one shot, and are naive about how they are produced.
    Louise Boat and M2225 like this.
  12. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    City of Angels
    I had wanted to do my own transfer of Pigs on the Wing (8-Track cartridge version) with Snowy White guitar solo. If one looks at youtube one will see several uploads claiming to be the 8-track version but are almost all the bad remix from the Snowy compilation. Or they are in fact that 8-track, they are even worse sounding with wow / flutter issues, or like one of them - it runs too slow. So during some time off from work the last week I broke out my 8-track tape and a good player I had in storage, and cleaned up the heads really well and tried my shot at it in 24/96kHz digital. I think I topped all of the versions out there, at least the youtube botched jobs for sure.

    I took some 1977 PF pictures I had on hand on hand and created a quick slide show for your Animals entertainment until we get this in a deluxe edition coming hopefully soon. Until then enjoy.

    password is "pink"

    lets see if this takes.

    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020
  13. Tim 2


    Alberta Canada
    Thats been my point for years.
  14. Adam Pajda

    Adam Pajda Forum Resident

    Wow thanks, that really is sounding differently than those YT uploads. Great. And wonderful pictures too.
    RockNRod and quicksrt like this.
  15. fishcane

    fishcane Dirt Farmer

    Finger Lakes,NY
    great job on the transfer
    RangerXT and quicksrt like this.
  16. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    City of Angels
    Thank you for noting this. The pics was an idea I had in my mind like doing the 8-track transfer, they were not going to be together like that. It just came together. I'm experimenting on using photos on a time line, like documentaries do. Ken Burns zooms are next for me to try. Sony Vegas editing software is pretty slick and it took whatever I prepped and threw at it just fine. Everything there was a first attempt.
    ThirdBowl and fishcane like this.
  17. campbrs

    campbrs Member

    Sounds great!
  18. RingoStarr39

    RingoStarr39 Forum Resident

    Baden, PA
    It's got the typical 8 track wow / flutter and minor drop outs, but the transfer itself is top notch.
    Did 8 tracks ever use Dolby? It sort of has that "Dolby encoded cassette without being played back with Dolby turned on" kind of sound.
  19. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    City of Angels
    It has the Dolby encoding, and not turned on for playback. It needs all the high end it can get, as these tapes typically fade so much after 40 years. I thought wow and flutter were rather low on this playback. The guitar (high end) does not shimmer like a Dead concert tape being traded too many times. LOL

    PS Keep in mind, the original file on the desktop has more range going for it than this very reduced compressed video does.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020
  20. Arnold_Layne

    Arnold_Layne Forum Resident

    Waldorf, MD USA
    I have the UK 8 track and also made a transfer. I've uploaded to Youtube.

    The raw file on my HDD sounds better than this video.
  21. quicksrt

    quicksrt Senior Member

    City of Angels
    I had the olive green EMI UK cart with color glossy slipcase I foolishly gave away. I think your tape has something going for it mine does not.
  22. paulisdead

    paulisdead fast and bulbous

    I’d say the hold up is still packaging it. If there’s little extras or no live shows of consumer quality (audience and cassette soundboard recordings), a 5.1 mix isn’t enough of a draw card for the average putter.
    superstar19 and RangerXT like this.
  23. PDK

    PDK Ta-ta...

    Central Florida
    So you just up the price and sell it to the die hards and audiophiles. Sounds recently familiar actually...and why not?
    superstar19 likes this.
  24. riskylogic

    riskylogic Forum Resident

    Wait, No, I mean Yes, it is. I'm an average putter, or at least I try to be.
    superstar19 and paulisdead like this.
  25. paulisdead

    paulisdead fast and bulbous

    The average box set fan would still complain if there wasn’t “exclusive” content. Audiophiles are always an afterthought. Even for an audiophile band like Floyd with a premium price tag.

    superstar19 likes this.

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