Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon, the BIG thread: in search of the Holy Grail CD

Edit by Gary:

Member Devhda suggested that people searching this thread to determine their own "Holy Grail" refer to post # 261 (which is at the top of page 14 of this thread).

It contains links to 40 specific posts.

The Mission

Objective #1: To find and document every single copy of Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon.
Objective #2: To find the best sounding master, AKA The Holy Grail.

For once and for all.

The Method

For #1: Identify tracks peak values from Exact Audio Copy logs. This provides a fingerprint of the master generation, independent from matrix numbers. Or to be more precise, of similar CDs grouped by sound signature, which may or may not come from different masters.

This cannot be considered a 100% accurate method, as there is a slight possibility that 2 different masters share the same peak values. But it is the best method I can think of unless a different one is proposed.

For #2: Statistical comparison of subjective sound quality when 2 or more CDs have been heard.


The Data

EAC Logs: Paste EAC logs, including if read offset was used. It *IS* recommended and encouraged to rip the CD enabling read offset correction. A database of currently known offsets can be located here. If you don't know it or haven't applied it, post the logs anyway.

It is specially important that you post your EAC logs if you notice peak values different to the 10 listed on the Provisional Results here, or if your external appearance is different to the picture of a matched sound signature (please provide a scan of the CD) as you might have found another different master.

Matrix #: Numbers and letters in the inner ring of the CD.
Label: EMI, EMI UK, Harvest, Capitol, MFSL, Columbia
Additional Information: 20th Anniversary, 30th Anniversay, SACD, Black Face, Black Triangle, Japan, etc...
Year: Year
Country: Country of origin
Mastering Engineer: Name
# of Tracks: 9 or 10
TtR: Ticket to Ride is heard mostly in the right channel at the end of Eclipse. Yes or No.
Timing: Time in mins:secs
Pre-emphasis: Yes or No.
Desc: Physical description
CD image: scan of the CD
Footage image: scan of the footage
Subjective Sound Quality:
If two or more copies have been heard from an album, order the Matrix #'s by preference, from the best sounding to the worse sounding, i.e.:

CP35-3017 35B1 IO CDP 7 46001 2 > CP35-3017 33A3 CDP 7 46001 2

Additional comments on the quality are encouraged, as in "I find that track #3 on A album sounds has better stereo separation than on B album. The bass content is more forward on B album".

Blind ABX testing of 2 tracks is encouraged.

Foobar ABX component is recommended to test this.

The 2 tracks have to be ReplayGained from within Foobar previously to being ABX'ed, to focus on the quality of the master and to avoid possible bias based on volume levels.


Helpful links

Exact Audio Copy V0.85 beta 4. The recommended version to rip CDs.
Configure EAC to rip in *Secure Mode*.
Configure EAC Options
Pink Floyd CDs Database
Pink Floyd Discographies
ImageShack, to upload images
UDI UDII Comparison
Thanks to Moby-Deek for pointing these last two.
Stereophile Comments on DSotM
Stereophile on DSotM [SACD]
Stereophile: Dark Side of the Disc
Interview with James Guthrie and Alan Parsons about the 30th Anniversary edition
Four sides of the moon - Paper by Alan Parsons




Matrix Information for *LPs*, not CDs, as borrowed from here

Matrix information is the letters and numbers etched into the vinyl near the label in the runoff groove at the end of each side of a record. Matrix information may include:

1. Catalog number.
2. Side number.
3. Lacquer master number.
4. Stamper letter. (usually found at the 3 o'clock position)
5. Mother number. (usually found at the 9 o'clock position)
6. Record pressing plant.
7. The engineer who cut the lacquer.

Example: The matrix information, YAX 3419-1 G 1, found on side one of the Columbia Records pressing of The Piper at the Gates of Dawn indicates:

1. YAX 3419-1 is the lacquer master number (this includes the catalog number YAX 3419)
2. G is the stamper letter
3. 1 is the mother number

Stampers are made from the Mothers. Mothers are made from the lacquers. And the lacquers are cut from the master tapes. It is interesting to note that side one of the mono pressings of Piper at the Gates of Dawn are all made from a second lacquer. What happened to lacquer number 1?

Stamper Codes: The stamper codes used by Columbia/EMI Records is based on "Gramophone Ltd." and are as follows:

G=1
R=2
A=3
M=4
O=5
P=6
H=7
L=8
T=9
D=0

Example: A record with a "G" stamper letter indicates that the record was made from the first stamper. Later pressings may have stamper numbers in combination, such as "AL" which means 38.

 

How to check what Sound Signature has your CD

I would like to encourage these people to check their CDs against Sound Signatures #1 and #2 in order to spot FAKE CDs.

If you have got a genuine Japanese Black Face or a genuine Japanese Black Triangle, they should match Sound Signature #1.

If it matches a Sound Signature #2, you have got a FAKE CD.

Step-by-Step Guide

- Get Exact Audio Copy

The adapter number for your drive will be detected and shown on the top left corner of the window.

- Select a profile for your ripping device, CD-R or DVD-R, that matches your adapter.

This profile automatically configures EAC to rip in secure mode, with no cache.

- Look for the read-offset correction to apply to your drive under EAC > Drive Options > Offset / Speed.

Most of the mainstream rippers are listed here. If you can't find your drive listed there, don't worry, it's not going to be 100% optimal (you might be going to lose some digital silence samples at the beginning and end of the disc, but that's irrelevant for the peak levels analysis).

- Insert CD.

- Select all the tracks and hit the WAV button.

Once it's finished, it will generate a log, as the ones already posted here.

Take a note of the first 3 values on the first 3 tracks and compare them against this:

Sound Signature #1 - Genuine Japanese Black Face and SOME Black Triangles. Both with PRE-EMPHASIS.

Track 1: 39.9%
Track 2: 43.3%
Track 3: 70.1%

Sound Signature #2 - Major release and SOME FAKE Japanese Black Triangles. There might be SOME FAKE Black Faces as well. I would like to confirm or deny this.

Track 1: 87.8%
Track 2: 94.7%
Track 3: 100.0%



Japanese Harvest Black Face owners:

Goodyear:
(post 56) CP35-3017 10A1
(post 23) CP35-3017 13A2 and 7-46001 2
SamS CP35-3017 20A2 and 7-46001 2
tlake6659 CP35-3017 21A2 and 7-46001 2
HeavyDistortion CP35-3017 21A2 and 7-46001 2
Moby Deek CP35-3017 21A2 and 7-46001 2 (mono at end, no Ticket To Ride)
David P. Hill CP35-3017 21A2
BenCañas CP35-3017 21A2 and 7-46001 2
Veedub CP35-3017 28A5
Phil Elliott CP35-3017 28A6 and 7-46001 2 (mono at end, no Ticket To Ride)
Joe Fornarotto CP35-3017 30A1 and 7-46001 2
4_everyman CP35-3017 31A4 and 7-46001 2
Evan CP35-3017 #### and CDP 7-46001 #
stinsojd CP35-3017 33B8
Dob CP35-3017 U 1B2 TO and CDP 7 46001 2 AR (stereo at end, with Ticket To ride)


Japanese Manufactured by Toshiba-EMI Harvest Black Triangle owners:

Black triangle:
poweragemk CP35-3017-3 1A1
Evan CP35-3017 U 1A1 TO
taxman150 CP35-3017-U 1A3 TO
Dave CP35-3017-7 1A1
Bill S ?[/QUOTE]


My educated guess is that these ones might be FAKE and maybe SOME Japanese Harvest Black Face owners might be Fake too:

Evan CP35-3017 U 1A1 TO
taxman150 CP35-3017-U 1A3 TO



Anyone else who has another CD AND, it's looking different to a Black Face or Black Triangle, BUT matches Sound Signature #1, you are the lucky owner of a Stealth Japanese Black Face. Check post #2 on this thread for pictures.

If your CD doesn't match ANY of the sound signatures, you either found a new unknown Sound Signature, in which case I would like to know, or please take out your Teletubbies , it's not going to match no matter how hard you try and we know where you live.

Oh, and if it does, oh well, let's start another Dark Side of the Rainbow thread now...




Provisional Results

179 EAC logs have been analyzed. 10 different masters have been identified.

Corrections encouraged and welcome. This post is going to be continuously edited and maintained as new information is added.

Provisional findings

First, I would like to stress that this is only some hypothesis that I have got at the moment, and that it might not be correct, as I haven't got enough data to confirm this yet.

My biggest concern is about Sound Signature #2. That is the most common sound signature only after #5.

At the moment, the identified matrix numbers for this disc are:

CP35-3017-U 1A1 TO - Moby Deek's Black Triangle.
CP35-3017 (on case spine and front cover).
CP35-3017 and SHVL-804-A.B(CD) (on CD).
7243 8 29752 2 9
CDP 746001- 2 @ 7
CDP 7 46001 2 @ 9
A-14467/ 8297522 A - 7243 8 29752 29
EMI BIEM/MCPS LC 0542

The fact that it is the most common sound signature and also, one of the most expensive, if not the most expensive CD editions too, makes me suspect that this disc might be a FAKE Black Triangle, and just a "bit by bit" copy of a major official DSotM release. I haven't got enough subjective data yet, but it is generally considered that this sound signature is of inferior quality to a "TRUE" Black Face that matches sound signature #1. The ReplayGain data (Master #1 +0.44 - Master #2 -5.51) suggests that this is a louder CD too.
Without judging which ones sounds better, definitely there *IS* an obvious difference between these two CDs.

Also, the easiest way I have found to spot a Fake Black Triangle from a "True" one, without reading EAC logs, is that the Orchestral version of Ticket To Ride can be heard in the right channel at the end of Eclipse on Sound Signature #2 CD, while it is removed from #1, although it sounds VERY faded, more than in other sound signatures.

In order to confirm this, I would like to request some scanned images of the CD layer and the accompanying footage.

So if you have got any DSotM copy with a sound signature that matches this CD, and specially, if you have got this CD and it doesn't look like the pictures posted, please get in touch with me.

I think that I have identified all of the different sound signatures that exist from DSotM in, so now I would like to focus on external appearance.

SO: if you have got a CD that matches a particular sound signature BUT doesn't look like the pictures featured here, please scan a copy of your CD, upload the images to imageshack.ws, have the EAC logs handy and please contact me.

Of course, if you have got a CD that doesn't match any particular sound signature listed here, please contact me too.

Also, it would be useful if somebody who had the multichannel SACD could convert it to a 2 stereo channels PCM CD and analyze the resulting logs.


Distribution of CDs

Out of 179 EAC logs processed, this is the statistical distribution:

Master # - #CDs - %
================
Master #1 - 7 - 3.9
Master #2 - 42 - 23.4
Master #3 - 17 - 9.5
Master #4 - 23 - 12.8
Master #5 - 58 - 32.4
Master #6 - 10 - 5.6
Master #7 - 8 - 4.4
Master #8 - 5 - 2.8
Master #9 - 8 - 4.4
Master #10 - 1 - 0.5

Ordered from the most common to the least common

#5> #2 > #4 > #3 > #6 > #7 = #9 > #1 > #8 > #10


ReplayGain Values

ReplayGain analysis with foobar. Average Value per album, number of tracks

Master #1 +0.44 , 9
Master #2 -5.51 , 9
Master #3 +0.79 , 10
Master #4 -6.13 , 10
Master #5 -3.68 , 9
Master #6 -3.77 , 10
Master #7 -3.70 , 10
Master #8 -5.13 , 9
Master #9 +0.25 , 9

Ordered from loudest to quietest

#4 > #2 > #8 > #6 > #7 > #5 > #9 > #1 > #3




Sleeve notes from here

David Gilmour: Vocals, Guitars, VCS3
Nick Mason: Percussion, Tape Effects
Richard Wright: Keyboards, Vocals, VCS3
Roger Waters: Bass Guitar, Vocals, VCS3, Tape Effects

Produced by Pink Floyd
Recorded in Abbey Road Studios, London
between June 1972 and January 1973

Engineer: Alan Parsons
Assistant: Peter James
Mixing Supervised by Chris Thomas

Saxophone on Us And Them and Money: Dick Parry

Vocals on The Great Gig In The Sky: Clare Torry
Backing Vocals: Doris Troy, Leslie Duncan, Liza Strike, Barry St John

Sleeve Design by Hipgnosis
Sleeve Art by George Hardie N.T.A.
Photography by Hipgnosis
Stickers Art by George Hardie N.T.A.


Peak values of the first 3 tracks - Description


Master #1
Peak Values: 39.9, 43.3, 70.1
Matrix #s:
CP35-3017-3 1A1
CP35-3017 35B1 IO CDP 7 46001 2
CP35-3017 33A3 CDP 7 46001 2
CP35-3017 21A1 CDP 7 46001 2
CP35-3017 21A2 CDP 7 46001 2
Label: Harvest
Additional Information: Japan Harvest Black Face. Also some Black Triangles.
Year:
Country: Japan
Mastering Engineer:
# of Tracks: 9
TtR: No
Timing: 42:56
Pre-emphasis:
Desc:
CD image:

Footage image:

Subjective Sound Quality:


Master #2
Peak Values: 87.8, 94.7, 100
Matrix #:
CP35-3017-U 1A1 TO
CP35-3017 (on case spine and front cover).
CP35-3017 and SHVL-804-A.B(CD) (on CD).
7243 8 29752 2 9
CDP 746001- 2 @ 7
CDP 7 46001 2 @ 9
A-14467/ 8297522 A - 7243 8 29752 29
EMI BIEM/MCPS LC 0542
Label: EMI Harvest
Additional Information: Black Triangle. Issued in a standard case with a fold out booklet and Obi (shown). Manufactured by Toshiba EMI Ltd in Japan.
Year:
Country: Japan
Mastering Engineer:
# of Tracks: 9
TtR: Yes, but very faded
Timing: 42:55
Pre-emphasis:
Desc:
CD image:

Moby Deek's:

Footage image:


Moby Deek's:




Subjective Sound Quality:


Master #3
Peak Values: 29.3, 34.1, 39.2
Matrix #:
Label: EMI Harvest
Additional Information: Original Master Recording 1988 - (Ultradisc or Ultradisc II?) - MFSL Gold Edition
Year:
Country:
Mastering Engineer:
# of Tracks: 10
TtR: Yes
Timing: 42:58
Pre-emphasis:
Desc:
CD image:

Footage image:


Subjective Sound Quality:


Master #4
Peak Values: 34.4, 92.4, 92.0
Matrix #:
Label:
Additional Information: 30th Anniversary SACD Redbook Layer
Year: 2003
Country:
Mastering Engineer: James Guthrie
# of Tracks: 10
TtR: Yes
Timing: 42:58
Pre-emphasis:
Desc:
CD image:
Footage image:

Subjective Sound Quality:


Master #5
Peak Values: 67.9, 69.1, 76.9
Matrix #:
Label: Capitol
Additional Information: 20th Anniversary.
Year: 1992
Country:
Mastering Engineer: Remastering supervised by James Guthrie. Digitally remastered by Doug Sax, The Mastering Lab, LA
# of Tracks: 9
TtR: Yes
Timing: 42:57
Pre-emphasis:
Desc:
CD image:

Footage image:
Subjective Sound Quality:


Master #6
Peak Values: 35.0, 69.5, 69.9
Matrix #:
Label:
Additional Information: Shine On Box Set Disc 3
Year:
Country:
Mastering Engineer:
# of Tracks: 10
TtR: Yes
Timing: 42:55
Pre-emphasis:
Desc:
CD image:
Footage image:
Subjective Sound Quality:


Master #7
Peak Values: 34.9, 67.9, 69.1
Matrix #s:
CXK 53180 / CK 53184
DIDP-078415 G2 1C 06
Label:
Additional Information: Shine On Box Disc 6?
Year: 1992
Country:
Mastering Engineer:
# of Tracks: 10
TtR: Yes
Timing: 42:56
Pre-emphasis:
Desc:
CD image:


Footage image:
Subjective Sound Quality:


Master #8
Peak Values: 83.8, 90.4, 95.5
Matrix #:
CDP 7 46001 1 - C 246001 02% - DIDX 226
Label: Capitol
Additional Information: (P)1973 The Gramaphone Company Limited, and (C)1973 Capitol Records, Inc.
Year:
Country:
Mastering Engineer:
# of Tracks: 9
TtR: Yes, but very faded
Timing: 42:54
Pre-emphasis:
Desc:
CD image:
Footage image:
Subjective Sound Quality:


Master #9
Peak Values: 46.8, 48.2, 49.3
Matrix #s:
DIDX 226 111A3 - CDP 7 46001 2
Label: Capitol
Additional Information: Bought in 1988. Probably the first CD Release in Canada.
Year:
Country: Canada
Mastering Engineer:
# of Tracks: 9
TtR: Yes
Timing: 42:52
Pre-emphasis:
Desc:
CD image:

Footage image:
Subjective Sound Quality:

Master #10
Peak Values: 51.9, 87.8, 94.7
Matrix #s:
VTCD RCD 1011
Label: RING listed as the Publisher
Additional Information:
Year: 1995
Country: Hungary
Mastering Engineer:
# of Tracks: 10
TtR:
Timing:
Pre-emphasis:
Desc:
CD image:
Footage image:
Subjective Sound Quality:


Distribution of CDs

Out of 179 EAC logs processed, this is the statistical distribution:

Master # - #CDs - %
================
Master #1 - 7 - 3.9
Master #2 - 42 - 23.4
Master #3 - 17 - 9.5
Master #4 - 23 - 12.8
Master #5 - 58 - 32.4
Master #6 - 10 - 5.6
Master #7 - 8 - 4.4
Master #8 - 5 - 2.8
Master #9 - 8 - 4.4
Master #10 - 1 - 0.5

Ordered from the most common to the least common

#5> #2 > #4 > #3 > #6 > #7 = #9 > #1 > #8 > #10


ReplayGain Values

ReplayGain analysis with foobar. Average Value per album, number of tracks

Master #1 +0.44 , 9
Master #2 -5.51 , 9
Master #3 +0.79 , 10
Master #4 -6.13 , 10
Master #5 -3.68 , 9
Master #6 -3.77 , 10
Master #7 -3.70 , 10
Master #8 -5.13 , 9
Master #9 +0.25 , 9

Ordered from loudest to quietest

#4 > #2 > #8 > #6 > #7 > #5 > #9 > #1 > #3

 

Use this as template.

Data #1

EAC Logs:

Used drive : LITE-ON LTR-52327S Adapter: 1 ID: 0
Read mode : Secure with NO C2, accurate stream, disable cache
Read offset correction : 0
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No

Used output format : J:\Programfiler\Exact Audio Copy\lame.exe (LAME MP3 Encoder)
128 kBit/s
Additional command line options : --alt-preset standard

Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : No
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Installed external ASPI interface


Track 1
Filename F:\Cdrip\Pink Floyd-1973-The Dark Side Of The Moon\01 - Speak To Me,Breathe.wav

Peak level 39.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 22D014B9
Copy OK

Track 2
Filename F:\Cdrip\Pink Floyd-1973-The Dark Side Of The Moon\02 - On The Run.wav

Peak level 43.3 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 31BB98F5
Copy OK

Track 3
Filename F:\Cdrip\Pink Floyd-1973-The Dark Side Of The Moon\03 - Time.wav

Peak level 70.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 920A6E97
Copy OK

Track 4
Filename F:\Cdrip\Pink Floyd-1973-The Dark Side Of The Moon\04 - The Great Gig In The Sky.wav

Peak level 55.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 4FFCC1F8
Copy OK

Track 5
Filename F:\Cdrip\Pink Floyd-1973-The Dark Side Of The Moon\05 - Money.wav

Peak level 72.3 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Copy CRC 4A2AD0BA
Copy OK

Track 6
Filename F:\Cdrip\Pink Floyd-1973-The Dark Side Of The Moon\06 - Us And Them.wav

Peak level 44.5 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Copy CRC 390C0086
Copy OK

Track 7
Filename F:\Cdrip\Pink Floyd-1973-The Dark Side Of The Moon\07 - Any Colour You Like.wav

Peak level 53.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 2098D57D
Copy OK

Track 8
Filename F:\Cdrip\Pink Floyd-1973-The Dark Side Of The Moon\08 - Brain Damage.wav

Peak level 54.6 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Copy CRC 7A92C9EC
Copy OK

Track 9
Filename F:\Cdrip\Pink Floyd-1973-The Dark Side Of The Moon\09 - Eclipse.wav

Peak level 61.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 65A8A1E4
Copy OK

No errors occured


End of status report

Matrix #: CP35-3017 35B1 IO CDP 7 46001 2
Label: EMI
Additional Information: Black Face Japan
Year:
Country: Japan
Mastering Engineer: Name
# of Tracks: 9
TtR: No.
Timing: 42:56
Pre-emphasis:
Desc: Black coloured layer.
CD image:

Footage image:
Subjective Sound Quality:

 

Data #2

EAC Logs:

Used drive : TOSHIBA DVD-ROM SD-C2502 Adapter: 1 ID: 0
Read mode : Secure with NO C2, accurate stream, disable cache
Read offset correction : -472
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No

Used output format : C:\Program Files\lame3902\lame.exe (User Defined Encoder)
256 kBit/s
Additional command line options : --alt-preset extreme %S %D
Use compression offset : 2258

Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Installed external ASPI interface


Track 1
Filename c:\Ripping\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Remaster] - 01 - Speak To Me , Breathe.wav

Peak level 87.8 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Copy CRC 66E77A91
Copy OK

Track 2
Filename c:\Ripping\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Remaster] - 02 - On The Run.wav

Peak level 94.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 7D2F3093
Copy OK

Track 3
Filename c:\Ripping\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Remaster] - 03 - Time.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC D28AB80D
Copy OK

Track 4
Filename c:\Ripping\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Remaster] - 04 - The Great Gig In The Sky.wav

Peak level 97.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC CA0ADDF5
Copy OK

Track 5
Filename c:\Ripping\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Remaster] - 05 - Money.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Copy CRC 711291AA
Copy OK

Track 6
Filename c:\Ripping\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Remaster] - 06 - Us and Them.wav

Peak level 99.1 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Copy CRC 7E781622
Copy OK

Track 7
Filename c:\Ripping\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Remaster] - 07 - Any Colour You Like.wav

Peak level 97.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC C031AF40
Copy OK

Track 8
Filename c:\Ripping\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Remaster] - 08 - Brain Damage.wav

Peak level 93.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 0F7DCE1A
Copy OK

Track 9
Filename c:\Ripping\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Remaster] - 09 - Eclipse.wav

Peak level 97.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC EB34AAF2
Copy OK

No errors occured


End of status report

Matrix #:
1A1 TO ?
Label: EMI Harvest
Additional Information: Black Triangle
Year:
Country:
Mastering Engineer:
# of Tracks:
TtR:
Timing:
Pre-emphasis:
Desc:
CD image:
Footage image:
Subjective Sound Quality:

 

Data #3

EAC Logs:

Used drive : PLEXTOR CD-ROM PX-40TW Adapter: 2 ID: 5
Read mode : Secure with NO C2, accurate stream, disable cache
Read offset correction : 0
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No

Used output format : C:\Program Files\Lame\lame3.90.2byDibrom.exe (LAME MP3 Encoder)
128 kBit/s
Additional command line options : --alt-preset extreme
Use compression offset : 0

Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Installed external ASPI interface


Track 1
Filename c:\Pink Floyd\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Mobile Fidelity]\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Mobile Fidelity] - 01 - Speak To Me.wav

Peak level 29.3 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 2049125F
Copy OK

Track 2
Filename c:\Pink Floyd\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Mobile Fidelity]\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Mobile Fidelity] - 02 - Breathe.wav

Peak level 34.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 454D0365
Copy OK

Track 3
Filename c:\Pink Floyd\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Mobile Fidelity]\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Mobile Fidelity] - 03 - On The Run.wav

Peak level 39.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 0DA96D85
Copy OK

Track 4
Filename c:\Pink Floyd\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Mobile Fidelity]\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Mobile Fidelity] - 04 - Time.wav

Peak level 40.3 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Copy CRC 026A26FF
Copy OK

Track 5
Filename c:\Pink Floyd\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Mobile Fidelity]\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Mobile Fidelity] - 05 - The Great Gig In The Sky.wav

Peak level 41.5 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Copy CRC 18A58941
Copy OK

Track 6
Filename c:\Pink Floyd\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Mobile Fidelity]\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Mobile Fidelity] - 06 - Money.wav

Peak level 56.3 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 6CF7E982
Copy OK

Track 7
Filename c:\Pink Floyd\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Mobile Fidelity]\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Mobile Fidelity] - 07 - Us And Them.wav

Peak level 49.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 8004915A
Copy OK

Track 8
Filename c:\Pink Floyd\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Mobile Fidelity]\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Mobile Fidelity] - 08 - Any Colour You Like.wav

Peak level 57.8 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 291093C3
Copy OK

Track 9
Filename c:\Pink Floyd\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Mobile Fidelity]\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Mobile Fidelity] - 09 - Brain Damage.wav

Peak level 52.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 7298B727
Copy OK

Track 10
Filename c:\Pink Floyd\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Mobile Fidelity]\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon [Mobile Fidelity] - 10 - Eclipse.wav

Peak level 60.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 08550ED1
Copy OK

No errors occured


End of status report

Matrix #:
Label: EMI Harvest
Additional Information: Original Master Recording 1988 - MFSL Gold Edition
Year:
Country:
Mastering Engineer:
# of Tracks: 10
TtR: Yes
Timing:
Pre-emphasis:
Desc:
CD image:
Footage image:
Subjective Sound Quality:

 

Data #4

EAC Logs:

Used drive : HL-DT-STCD-RW GCE-8320B Adapter: 1 ID: 0
Read mode : Secure with NO C2, accurate stream, disable cache
Read offset correction : 12
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No

Used output format : C:\Program\LAME\lame-3.90.3-by-Dibrom.exe (LAME MP3 Encoder)
192 kBit/s
Additional command line options : --alt-preset standard

Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Installed external ASPI interface


Track 1
Filename C:\TEMP\MP3\Pink Floyd - (1973) The Dark Side Of The Moon (30th Anniversary Edition)\01 - Speak To Me.wav

Peak level 34.4 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 9090B6E3
Copy OK

Track 2
Filename C:\TEMP\MP3\Pink Floyd - (1973) The Dark Side Of The Moon (30th Anniversary Edition)\02 - Breathe.wav

Peak level 92.4 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC BB07B8C1
Copy OK

Track 3
Filename C:\TEMP\MP3\Pink Floyd - (1973) The Dark Side Of The Moon (30th Anniversary Edition)\03 - On The Run.wav

Peak level 92.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC F3D37084
Copy OK

Track 4
Filename C:\TEMP\MP3\Pink Floyd - (1973) The Dark Side Of The Moon (30th Anniversary Edition)\04 - Time.wav

Peak level 93.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 9EA63B5B
Copy OK

Track 5
Filename C:\TEMP\MP3\Pink Floyd - (1973) The Dark Side Of The Moon (30th Anniversary Edition)\05 - The Great Gig In The Sky.wav

Peak level 92.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 7915CB83
Copy OK

Track 6
Filename C:\TEMP\MP3\Pink Floyd - (1973) The Dark Side Of The Moon (30th Anniversary Edition)\06 - Money.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 57CAAF81
Copy OK

Track 7
Filename C:\TEMP\MP3\Pink Floyd - (1973) The Dark Side Of The Moon (30th Anniversary Edition)\07 - Us And Them.wav

Peak level 84.3 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Copy CRC 229620B0
Copy OK

Track 8
Filename C:\TEMP\MP3\Pink Floyd - (1973) The Dark Side Of The Moon (30th Anniversary Edition)\08 - Any Colour You Like.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Copy CRC 2888129A
Copy OK

Track 9
Filename C:\TEMP\MP3\Pink Floyd - (1973) The Dark Side Of The Moon (30th Anniversary Edition)\09 - Brain Damage.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC B1F4E876
Copy OK

Track 10
Filename C:\TEMP\MP3\Pink Floyd - (1973) The Dark Side Of The Moon (30th Anniversary Edition)\10 - Eclipse.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 2949BEB7
Copy OK

No errors occured


End of status report

Matrix #:
Label:
Additional Information: 30th Anniversary SACD Redbook Layer
Year: 2003
Country:
Mastering Engineer:
# of Tracks: 10
TtR: Yes
Timing:
Pre-emphasis:
Desc:
CD image:
Footage image:
Subjective Sound Quality:

 

Data #5

EAC Logs:

Used drive : RICOH DVD+RW MP5125 Adapter: 1 ID: 1
Read mode : Secure with NO C2, accurate stream, disable cache
Read offset correction : 0
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No

Used output format : C:\Programme\[Audio & Video]\Exact Audio Copy\lame.exe (LAME MP3 Encoder)
256 kBit/s
Additional command line options : --alt-preset extreme

Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Installed external ASPI interface


Track 1
Filename c:\Pink Floyd - (1973) The Dark Side Of The Moon (Twentieth Anniversary Edition)\Pink Floyd - The Dark Side Of The Moon (Twentieth Anniversary Edition) - 01 - A) Speak To Me B) Breathe.wav

Peak level 67.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC F309DCF3
Copy OK

Track 2
Filename c:\Pink Floyd - (1973) The Dark Side Of The Moon (Twentieth Anniversary Edition)\Pink Floyd - The Dark Side Of The Moon (Twentieth Anniversary Edition) - 02 - On The Run.wav

Peak level 69.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 01D5088B
Copy OK

Track 3
Filename c:\Pink Floyd - (1973) The Dark Side Of The Moon (Twentieth Anniversary Edition)\Pink Floyd - The Dark Side Of The Moon (Twentieth Anniversary Edition) - 03 - Time.wav

Peak level 76.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 22817D8F
Copy OK

Track 4
Filename c:\Pink Floyd - (1973) The Dark Side Of The Moon (Twentieth Anniversary Edition)\Pink Floyd - The Dark Side Of The Moon (Twentieth Anniversary Edition) - 04 - The Great Gig In The Sky.wav

Peak level 75.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC F413E300
Copy OK

Track 5
Filename c:\Pink Floyd - (1973) The Dark Side Of The Moon (Twentieth Anniversary Edition)\Pink Floyd - The Dark Side Of The Moon (Twentieth Anniversary Edition) - 05 - Money.wav

Peak level 96.8 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC B299A9B8
Copy OK

Track 6
Filename c:\Pink Floyd - (1973) The Dark Side Of The Moon (Twentieth Anniversary Edition)\Pink Floyd - The Dark Side Of The Moon (Twentieth Anniversary Edition) - 06 - Us And Them.wav

Peak level 69.6 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 520C4786
Copy OK

Track 7
Filename c:\Pink Floyd - (1973) The Dark Side Of The Moon (Twentieth Anniversary Edition)\Pink Floyd - The Dark Side Of The Moon (Twentieth Anniversary Edition) - 07 - Any Colour You Like.wav

Peak level 89.3 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 48D40F5C
Copy OK

Track 8
Filename c:\Pink Floyd - (1973) The Dark Side Of The Moon (Twentieth Anniversary Edition)\Pink Floyd - The Dark Side Of The Moon (Twentieth Anniversary Edition) - 08 - Brain Damage.wav

Peak level 75.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 5224FA33
Copy OK

Track 9
Filename c:\Pink Floyd - (1973) The Dark Side Of The Moon (Twentieth Anniversary Edition)\Pink Floyd - The Dark Side Of The Moon (Twentieth Anniversary Edition) - 09 - Eclipse.wav

Peak level 82.5 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC E06C77B1
Copy OK

No errors occured


End of status report

Matrix #:
Label: Capitol
Additional Information: 20th Anniversary
Year: 1992
Country:
Mastering Engineer:
# of Tracks: 9
TtR:
Timing:
Pre-emphasis:
Desc:
CD image:
Footage image:
Subjective Sound Quality:

 

One thing about objective number 2, is that this "Holy Grail" thing is blown a bit out of proportion if you ask me. In short, if you've heard DSOTM a million times already don't expect one-million-one to be anything earthshattering, no matter which mastering it is. I erroneously stated in my earlier thread that the mastering I liked was the "preferred mastering", when in fact there were just a few people talking about it...a lot. I admittedly got caught up in that, but I was curious too.

Later on I got PMed from a few forum regulars who said they preferred the tonality of the UD over the others, so it is still just a matter of taste. The biggest reason why I prefer the "non TO" mastering (as Phil put it) is just because it's easier on my ears.

If you only saw a poll like this for reference, you might think the "Holy Grail" was something else.





...

 

Data #6

EAC Logs:

Used drive : MATSHITAUJDA720 DVD/CDRW Adapter: 1 ID: 0
Read mode : Secure with NO C2, accurate stream, disable cache
Combined read/write offset correction : 0
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No

Used output format : C:\Program Files\Exact Audio Copy\lame.exe (LAME MP3 Encoder)
128 kBit/s
Additional command line options : --alt-preset standard

Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Installed external ASPI interface


Track 1
Filename c:\Pink Floyd\a\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon (Shine On) - 01 - Speak To Me.wav

Peak level 35.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC A2F42F7D
Copy OK

Track 2
Filename c:\Pink Floyd\a\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon (Shine On) - 02 - Breathe.wav

Peak level 69.5 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Copy CRC 19E8727F
Copy OK

Track 3
Filename c:\Pink Floyd\a\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon (Shine On) - 03 - On The Run.wav

Peak level 69.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 553D41F2
Copy OK

Track 4
Filename c:\Pink Floyd\a\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon (Shine On) - 04 - Time.wav

Peak level 77.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC C92D045B
Copy OK

Track 5
Filename c:\Pink Floyd\a\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon (Shine On) - 05 - The Great Gig In The Sky.wav

Peak level 75.8 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 7A311AE6
Copy OK

Track 6
Filename c:\Pink Floyd\a\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon (Shine On) - 06 - Money.wav

Peak level 94.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 35801E0B
Copy OK

Track 7
Filename c:\Pink Floyd\a\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon (Shine On) - 07 - Us And Them.wav

Peak level 70.4 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC B0735BE1
Copy OK

Track 8
Filename c:\Pink Floyd\a\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon (Shine On) - 08 - Any Colour You Like.wav

Peak level 91.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC EB3399BE
Copy OK

Track 9
Filename c:\Pink Floyd\a\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon (Shine On) - 09 - Brain Damage.wav

Peak level 75.5 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 28836EF7
Copy OK

Track 10
Filename c:\Pink Floyd\a\Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon (Shine On) - 10 - Eclipse.wav

Peak level 83.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Copy CRC 811E22C0
Copy OK

No errors occured


End of status report

Matrix #:
Label:
Additional Information: Shine On Box Set Disc 3
Year:
Country:
Mastering Engineer:
# of Tracks:
TtR:
Timing:
Pre-emphasis:
Desc:
CD image:
Footage image:
Subjective Sound Quality:

 

Definitely I agree that, by definition of anything involving the term "preferred", I must stress that this is going to be based on subjective data.

The main goal is to identify as many different masters as possible, 9 as of now, and then each person will be free to decide on their own which master he likes best.

If 90% of the people agrees that, in their ears, one master sounds better than another, and I prefer the second master, that's not going to change anything in my order of preferences. On the other hand, it might help someone who hasn't purchased any masters yet to decide which one to bid for, order, etc.

So, according to this , EAC logs from these persons will be more than welcome. These will hopefully help everybody identify their CDs.

Black Harvest:

Goodyear:
(post 56) CP35-3017 10A1
(post 23) CP35-3017 13A2 and 7-46001 2
SamS CP35-3017 20A2 and 7-46001 2
tlake6659 CP35-3017 21A2 and 7-46001 2
HeavyDistortion CP35-3017 21A2 and 7-46001 2
Moby Deek CP35-3017 21A2 and 7-46001 2 (mono at end, no Ticket To Ride)
David P. Hill CP35-3017 21A2
BenCañas CP35-3017 21A2 and 7-46001 2
Veedub CP35-3017 28A5
Phil Elliott CP35-3017 28A6 and 7-46001 2 (mono at end, no Ticket To Ride)
Joe Fornarotto CP35-3017 30A1 and 7-46001 2
4_everyman CP35-3017 31A4 and 7-46001 2
Evan CP35-3017 #### and CDP 7-46001 #
stinsojd CP35-3017 33B8
Dob CP35-3017 U 1B2 TO and CDP 7 46001 2 AR (stereo at end, with Ticket To ride)



Black triangle:
poweragemk CP35-3017-3 1A1
Evan CP35-3017 U 1A1 TO
taxman150 CP35-3017-U 1A3 TO
Dave CP35-3017-7 1A1
Bill S ?

 

Holy smokes. And we thought Roger Waters was detail-oriented.

 

sorry 'bout that T/C

 

Not to be a party pooper, but I'm trying to understand what "peak values" give you at all. How can they give you master generation when the peaks are set during transfer of the master from whatever deck and console is used at that time (adding it's own "coloration") through to the A/D converter at whatever the levels the mastering engineer set at that time - and they can differ every single time a transfer was done regardless of what master is used. Even if the same original master has been used every single time.

 

Substitute "master generation" for "sound fingerprint" if you like. Once fingerprints have been identified, it can be discussed later which one comes from which master.

That's the best way I can think of to separate 200 CDs in groups according to sound quality similarities.

Unless a better method is proposed. I'm all ears.

 

Okay, I got it now.

Carry on...

 

Master #10 sound signature has been identified and added.

 

My disc is a black triangle which is different from the one posted but the same as master 1. You said to post if it was different. All the talk about the "triangle" will probably make this relevant

CP35-3017 on case spine and front cover

Matrix #
CP35-3017 12A1
CDP 7-46001 2

On CD Face:
CP35-3017 and SHVL-804-A.B CD


EAC extraction logfile from 19. April 2005, 18:45 for CD
Pink Floyd / Dark Side Of The Moon
Used drive : LITE-ON DVDRW LDW-451S Adapter: 1 ID: 0
Read mode : Secure with NO C2, accurate stream, NO disable cache
Read offset correction : 12
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No
Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo
Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000

Track 1
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Russ\Desktop\New Folder (2)\01 - Speak To Me,Breathe.wav
Pre-gap length 0:00:02.00
Peak level 39.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC E58E6F69
Copy CRC E58E6F69
Copy OK
Track 2
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Russ\Desktop\New Folder (2)\02 - On The Run.wav
Peak level 43.3 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 1AC9C873
Copy CRC 1AC9C873
Copy OK
Track 3
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Russ\Desktop\New Folder (2)\03 - Time.wav
Peak level 70.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 97EE87BF
Copy CRC 97EE87BF
Copy OK
Track 4
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Russ\Desktop\New Folder (2)\04 - The Great Gig In The Sky.wav
Peak level 55.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 99283ED8
Copy CRC 99283ED8
Copy OK
Track 5
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Russ\Desktop\New Folder (2)\05 - Money.wav
Peak level 72.3 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC A375C24C
Copy CRC A375C24C
Copy OK
Track 6
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Russ\Desktop\New Folder (2)\06 - Us And Them.wav
Peak level 44.5 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC C237A72F
Copy CRC C237A72F
Copy OK
Track 7
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Russ\Desktop\New Folder (2)\07 - Any Colour You Like.wav
Peak level 53.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 6CA7FFB8
Copy CRC 6CA7FFB8
Copy OK
Track 8
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Russ\Desktop\New Folder (2)\08 - Brain Damage.wav
Peak level 54.6 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 15DA6856
Copy CRC 15DA6856
Copy OK
Track 9
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Russ\Desktop\New Folder (2)\09 - Eclipse.wav
Peak level 61.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC CAF3D52C
Copy CRC CAF3D52C
Copy OK
No errors occured

End of status report

 

sorry, thanks for the correction Steve, it's grial on my native language, hence my typo

 

(DogOfDooM was #7)

Data #8 Owner: Dave

EAC Logs:

EAC extraction logfile from 19. April 2005, 16:22 for CD
Pink Floyd / Dark Side Of The Moon

Used drive : PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W1210A Adapter: 1 ID: 1
Read mode : Secure with NO C2, accurate stream, NO disable cache
Read offset correction : 69
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : Yes

Used output format : Internal WAV Routines
44.100 Hz; 16 Bit; Stereo

Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : No
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000


Range status and errors
Selected range
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\home\My Documents\Floyd1.wav

Peak level 72.3 %
Range quality 100.0 %
CRC A5C8921D
Copy OK

No errors occured

End of status report
------------------------------------------------------------
Used drive : PLEXTOR CD-R PX-W1210A Adapter: 1 ID: 1
Read mode : Secure with NO C2, accurate stream, NO disable cache
Read offset correction : 69
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : Yes

Used output format : C:\Documents and Settings\home\Desktop\New Folder\flac\lame-3.96.1\LAME.EXE (User Defined Encoder)
192 kBit/s
Additional command line options : %l--alt-preset 128%l%h--alt-preset standard%h %s %d

Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : No
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000


Track 1
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\home\My Documents\Track01.wav

Peak level 39.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 0A19B329

Track 2
Peak level 43.3 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 544A9367

Track 3
Peak level 70.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC D0C3E97F

Track 4
Peak level 55.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 603BC32F

Track 5
Peak level 72.3 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC D7AA0E40

Track 6
Peak level 44.5 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC 918A42A2

Track 7
Peak level 53.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 5C34D8EF

Track 8
Peak level 54.6 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC 692B667A

Track 9
Peak level 61.2 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 0CB4DDFA


Matrix #: CP35-3017-7 1A1
Label: Toshiba/EMI
Additional Information: 24 page booklet with Japanese and English
Year: 198? (speculating '83)
Country: Japan
Mastering Engineer: ?
# of Tracks: 9
TtR:
Timing: 42:56
Pre-emphasis:
Desc:
CD image: exactly like the black triangle version above
Footage image:
Subjective Sound Quality from Dave: the best I've heard of 9 different pressings

 

It might be easier too find The True Grail!
And I thought 'bit's were bit's!!!
This thread is both boring & exceiting, if that's possible. Hope something 'grailish' comes out of all this work. I'm betting on the "first" release. Just a hunch...

 

Nice post. This is intersting to me.

I have a question. Is it possible to obtain different results by ripping the same cd in different cd-rom drives? I notice in each log above that the "master" is ripped on different cd-rom drives. Some have drive cache turned on, while others have drive cache turned off. Will other people obtain the same results by ripping the same cd on their drives? Just a thought.

 

Provided EAC is configured to rip in Secure Mode, and ideally if read offsets have been applied, the same CD should get the same readings no matter which drive is used.

Even if no read offsets or cache hitting has been turned on, it might not extract the information accurately bit by bit, but it might still successfully detect the right peak values. This might not be accurate though, but in my experience, this hasn't happened yet.

 

I have got a request to make.

Is there anyone who has got the SACD version, who has got the equipment and the knowledge to do a 2 stereo channels PCM dump from the multichannel SACD layer? Please PM me.

 

just get the SACD and forget about the rest - it's miles ahead of all red book releases
tim