Carin appears to be sharing production details that were previously unknown. That part is really no big deal but it riles up some folks when he seems to minimize Rick's work, true or not. And I feel my original response to your post made a point regardless of what you meant by your question.
That is what he said at the time about it, but judging purely from the number of times various band members came in and out of the lineup in 2015/2016 it seemed pretty obvious that this was more about a raft of scheduling conflicts than some purely artistic aim to 'just vibe with some different cats for a change, man' Roger said that, back in the 1970s, Richard would write and present musical ideas potentially for Pink Floyd, and then get frustrated with the band and he'd just end up keeping said ideas for his solo albums. Fair enough, they were always his ideas to keep anyway. Nick has said that there was initially a 'democratic' winnowing process for the ideas everyone brought in for TDB, but that failed when Rick seemingly wanted only to work on his own stuff and 'downvoted' everything else. Putting two and two together, does it really not make sense that he would get equally frustrated, pull his song aside for himself, and leave the work of arranging and programming other peoples' songs to... other people?
Speaking of incorrect credits, there seem to be some oversights here in the booklet of the Later Years Highlights CD: Jon Carin gets no credit for Lost for Words, but on the 2LP version he does. Another discrepancy: Percussion on the AMLOR tracks is credited to Danny Cummings. All versions of AMLOR, instead, have Steve Forman as the only listed percussionist. The 2LP version credits Steve Forman on "Sorrow", no percussionist (and no backing vocalists either!) on "On the Turning Away", and Danny Cummings on "One Slip". Except that "What Do You Want From Me", "Marooned" and "Keep Talking" weren't other peoples' songs. They are all co-credited to him and yet - at least if Carin's comments are correct - Rick did not play anything on the first two and contributed nothing but one keyboard solo to the latter. I mean, they worked out a way of voting for the ideas to include that didn't skew towards any single member, and even if Rick was outvoted on some occasions, I would assume that the songs which he is credited with as a co-writer got his nod of approval. If "Man of Customs" was so far developed to already have lyrics (by Anthony Moore I guess) and a demo of David singing it, still with a view towards including it on The Division Bell, why does it sound like he was barely there for the recording of the album? (And apparently "Breakthrough" was a similar case. Gilmour liked the song so much that he performed it with Rick on the "In Concert" DVD.) I'm not saying your comment is invalid, but I wonder about the motivation. In the end it would be the last PF album while Rick was alive (not that anybody knew it at the time), and he must have been aware that any listener picking up the CD would assume it's him playing the piano on "Marooned" and that he would be judged for tracks like that (as indeed an internet search confirms, several reviews picked up on "his" playing on said tune).
Album credits are seldom 100% correct. Sometimes credit trading and selling happens in production circles. (many times before and after the fact) I tend to ignore the politics and focus on the whether or not the music is good, which is all that really matters anyways.
I can't be the only one reading this exchange who doesn't feel like these ideas are mutually exclusive, right? Rick was an integral part of the Floyd sound and I dearly miss his lead vocals on the later (i.e. pretty much everything post-'72) material. It was a bolt from the heavens to hear a lead vocal from him on "Wearing the Inside Out," which is still a highlight on Division Bell for me. I'm also a big fan of the later years material in general, so I'm hardly a Waters fanboy or any of that nonsense. That said, Wright seems to fall neatly into the cliche of being a talented guy who wasn't particularly driven. I don't find it hard to accept that what he did do was exemplary but that he could sometimes bugger off and take his ball home for any or no reason. Wasn't that the complaint about him pretty much across the board post-Dark Side of the Moon? It's why Waters wanted him out in '78/'79 and it's why he didn't become a full partner after he came back and Gilmour/Mason shouldered the financial burden for the court battles and touring in '87. I can't speak for Carin because I don't know the guy, but he's certainly put in the miles with PF and Gilmour/Waters individually, so the guy knows and must at least respect, if not love, the music. Maybe he just got tired of the mythology writing his works out. Stuff you just let roll off when you're younger may seem egregious later on - particularly if you feel like your legacy is being assigned to someone else. Is it the case? Hell if I know, but Wright was never some crazy creative workhorse or dynamo at his best and I find it hard to believe that he suddenly became a whirling dervish in '87-'94. I'm happy with what we got and, whoever played the parts, the right aspects of that vintage PF sound were bottled on DB in particular. The music was good. Honestly, it'd disappoint me to find out Wright didn't have a huge hand in that, but I also think Carin would be due some serious credit if he was able to tap into that sound and spirit so effectively on his own too. I guess I can see both sides here. Even if Wright didn't play a note on DB, his legacy is assured by vintage work most fans rank more highly anyway. Would it kill anyone to admit it if Carin did most of the work on those later albums? Hardly.
Very well put. In the end I don't really care who did what if the music is great and engaging. Artists should always get their due credit, but we all know it doesn't happen.
So we know that supposedly One Another Movie and Marooned should have Jon Carin as another songwriter. Wearing the Inside Out — Guy Pratt. What else?
I honestly have no problem with Carin sharing the details of his contributions to the records he played (and composed) on. Good for him. Where I draw the line is with his attitude towards others (like his post flaming Andy Jackson which I found to be very unprofessional) and his taking credit for coming up with the idea for the Saucers (going so far as to editing a 5 year old post). He may have had it in his head but that's not how the band came to be. Speaking of which, looking forward to Nick and the gang returning to the states next year! "We can’t wait to get back together, but I’ve got a commitment to Nick and Saucerful for the first half of next year. We’ll be doing America and Europe and the UK. So, if I go out at all it will have to be this year or the second half of next year. Possibly with another album. We’ll see.” - Gary Kemp
Song writing credit only pertains to the melody and lyrics. Jon shouldn't get credit for his intro-noodling on Marooned just as Rick didn't get a credit for his intro-noodling on Sheep. Playing on a track or writing solos doesn't equate a writing credit.
I wouldn't mind another Saucerful's album. Hope they're gonna perform almost entirely differentl set on the Echoes tour. There's so much of PF's early catalogue that needs to be performed.
I suppose because "Astronomy Domine" and "One of These Days" were on the '94 set lists, the Saucers could still flog this $700 turkey in their merch stalls as a souvenir then?
Funnily enough the times i have seen David live he didnt play Astronomy Domine and i seeing Nicks shows i have now seen it played twice now.
But Marooned has no lyrics and not even a well-defined melody. What exactly constitutes the composition of the piece?
I have a question. In the Later Years box set there is a section of 1994 recordings. But we know that Division Bell was recorded in 1993. Is it an another mistake?
Love this box set more n more every day…. It’s like thanksgiving dinner dessert and leftovers all year long
There was a similar thing with Autumn '68. Someone said that it was recorded in '68, and someone said '69. No way the High Hopes demo was made in '94 though. Weird
For reference, some examples of Rick's work in '93 are Endless River tracks for which he's the only credited keyboardist. Most have just the core early members (I really love the duets): Ebb and Flow Unsung The Lost Art Of Conversation Night Light (Gilmour/Wright duets) It's What We Do (Gilmour/Wright/Mason trio) Surfacing (Gilmour/Wright/Mason trio, backing vocals by Durga McBroom) also: Skins, Talkin' Hawkin'
