SH Spotlight Play the Kinks "Waterloo Sunset" in stereo, check and fix or improve your stereo playback with it!

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Jun 15, 2013.

  1. aroney

    aroney Who really gives a...?

    I can hear it just fine, but it's much more pronounced on my right (sounds just like the backing vocals are floating up and somewhat over my shoulder) than to my left. :shrug:
  2. hutchguv

    hutchguv Rock/Metal/Prog/Power Pop fan


    Not sure if any one has mentioned this...

    But try to make sure the gap behind the speakers to the rear walls and next to the side walls is NOT the same....
    This may cause unintentional nulls at certain frequencies
  3. Lemon Curry

    Lemon Curry (A) Face In The Crowd

    Mahwah, NJ
    Requires loudspeakers or will this work with headphones?
  4. riknbkr330

    riknbkr330 Forum Resident

    Traded that in years ago for the first remaster...bad mistake.
    I still have the UK vinyl from the 80s, which predates the CD, so I'm assuming that may be the best version on vinyl?
  5. Changingman

    Changingman Forum Resident

    While checking this I've just discovered I've got two different stereo mixes of this track.
    The one from Something Else (Castle Communications CD from the early 90's) has Ray Davies's vocals from the first verse on the left channel, while the mix from The Complete Collection CD (also on Castle, same period) has them on the right channel.
    I'm not an expert but I don't think it's just a matter of having reversed the channels. I'd say the SE mix has more depth, whereas the backing vocals from TCC are slightly more out of phase. I prefer the SE mix.
  6. aroney

    aroney Who really gives a...?

    Not the same? I would think that you would want to mirror both speakers in positioning, back and side, to be as close as possible.

    I figured the differences in my set-up may be why I'm hearing the effect more pronounced on my right side as opposed to the left.
  7. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    There is just one stereo mix. Voice on the right. The channels can be reversed if someone likes it better that way, no harm done.
  8. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    Reverse channels. More pronounced on left now or still right?
    eyeCalypso likes this.
  9. Changingman

    Changingman Forum Resident

    Mmmm... interesting. In that case the Complete Collection CD version is more faithful to the original mix and they must have reversed the channels for the Something Else CD. (?) My Castle CD reference is CLACD159 and it was made in France.
    Still there's some depth in the SE version that is somehow lost in the TCC version. I will compare both versions with a sound wave analyzer software and see the results. :righton:

    SKATTERBRANE Forum Resident

    Tucson, AZ
    Much to my annoyance, a LOT of the Moody Blues LEAD vocals are out of phase.
    hi_watt and Vic_1957 like this.
  11. hutchguv

    hutchguv Rock/Metal/Prog/Power Pop fan


    I may have been unclear in my explanation

    Just an example of set up

    Left speaker 12 inches from rear wall 20inches from side wall
    Right speaker 12 inches from rear wall 20inches from side wall

    Does this explain what I mean?

    My apologies for being unclear originally
    aroney likes this.
  12. SkeletonPete

    SkeletonPete Forum Resident

    Great fun listening to the sublime "Waterloo Sunset" in the service of speaker tweaking. I haven't spun my vinyl copy of Kinks Kronikles in ages.

    I read through the entire thread and haven't seen a mention of Poco's song "Crazy Eyes." On this track the phase mismatch appears to be used specifically as an effect. Listen through the 9" + tune and you will hear the banjo parts suddenly jump out of the soundstage. IIRC, the original LP jacket included a disclaimer about instruments disappearing if you were listening in monaural.

    The song itself - from the 1973 album of the same name - is an homage to Gram Parsons written by Richie Furay and arranged for orchestra by Bob Ezrin. It's definitely worth a listen beyond the effectiveness of the effect.
    kBear likes this.
  13. Adam9

    Adam9 Senior Member

    Toronto, Canada
    With the exception of Village Green Preservation Society, all of the Kinks' original Castle CDs have the channels reversed.
  14. aroney

    aroney Who really gives a...?

    Still more pronounced on the right.
  15. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    That's your setup then. Try moving speakers around slightly... Side walls hurt the effect..
    eyeCalypso likes this.
  16. aroney

    aroney Who really gives a...?

    Yup, that's what I figured - my left speaker is near stairs and closer to a side wall than the right side.
  17. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    I have the same problem in one of my rooms. Can't really do anything about it.. Not the end of the world..
    BrentB and aroney like this.
  18. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    If you don't have WATERLOO SUNSET in stereo you can still get your speakers in the correct position by just finding something with a mono center (a mono recording or if you don't have one, the "phantom center" vocal of any stereo rock, pop or jazz record).

    Now, switch ONE PAIR of speaker leads behind your speaker, either right or left. Switch the leads. This will throw your speakers out of phase with each other. Sit in your fun spot and the vocal sound that usually comes out if the middle should be diffused all around you. Move your speakers a small amount until this effect is optimized. Now, switch the leads back again (don't forget that!)

    You are in business, your stereo image should now sound wonderful. More fun with WATERLOO SUNSET though..
    hi_watt, eyeCalypso, Robert C and 3 others like this.
  19. spacecoyote

    spacecoyote Astral Resident

    I did this today, with Waterloo Sunset in stereo. The effect was an instant upgrade to my listening space.

    Thanks Steve.
  20. moops

    moops Forum Resident

    Geebung, Australia
    And while your at it, just keep playing more Kinks !
    All Down The Line likes this.
  21. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host Thread Starter

    Simple but it works..
    KinkySmallFace1991 likes this.
  22. Changingman

    Changingman Forum Resident

    Oh, I didn't know. Thanks for the info. Looks like they got the channels right for The Complete Collection CD.
    Adam9 likes this.
  23. Octavian

    Octavian Forum Resident

    I don’t know if it’s been discussed exactly what’s going on in this stereo mix, but I think I got it.

    You got the backing instruments at about 70 degrees left, one of the backing vocal tracks panned left, the lead vocal panned right, and then there is an additional backing vocal track panned center, but as discussed, it is out of phase. Basically that track is center but one of the channels is inverted.
  24. CrazyCatz

    CrazyCatz Great shot kid. Don't get cocky!

    Thanks for this bit of information, not to mention the whole of the 1st Post, will hunt it down now..only have a Kinks Compilation Album in the Collection I believe..brb shopping ..
  25. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Frankfurt, Germany
    The PRT CD of "Something Else" has two alternate mixes from the 1970s, for Tin Soldier Man and Situation Vacant. Fortunately, those two songs sound really good on the otherwise inferior Reprise CD, so you can assemble the ideal stereo album from those two CDs.
    The Kinks - Something Else By The Kinks PRT ‎– 8.26674 ZR
    The Kinks - Something Else By The Kinks Reprise Records ‎– 6279-2

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