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SH Spotlight Play the Kinks "Waterloo Sunset" in stereo, check and fix or improve your stereo playback with it!

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Steve Hoffman, Jun 15, 2013.

  1. Octavian

    Octavian Forum Resident

    I don’t know if it’s been discussed exactly what’s going on in this stereo mix, but I think I got it.

    You got the backing instruments at about 70 degrees left, one of the backing vocal tracks panned left, the lead vocal panned right, and then there is an additional backing vocal track panned center, but as discussed, it is out of phase. Basically that track is center but one of the channels is inverted.
  2. CrazyCatz

    CrazyCatz Great shot kid. Don't get cocky!

    Thanks for this bit of information, not to mention the whole of the 1st Post, will hunt it down now..only have a Kinks Compilation Album in the Collection I believe..brb ..off shopping ..
  3. Andreas

    Andreas Senior Member

    Frankfurt, Germany
    The PRT CD of "Something Else" has two alternate mixes from the 1970s, for Tin Soldier Man and Situation Vacant. Fortunately, those two songs sound really good on the otherwise inferior Reprise CD, so you can assemble the ideal stereo album from those two CDs.
    The Kinks - Something Else By The Kinks PRT ‎– 8.26674 ZR
    The Kinks - Something Else By The Kinks Reprise Records ‎– 6279-2
  4. porotikos

    porotikos Porotikos

    Athens, Greece
    i just got my new diy amazing speakers. they played awesome but they werent correctly set. i followed this advice from a post i found in stereophile.com:

    To adjust toe in I use The Beatles-"Abbey Road" and the song "Her Majesty." The vocal and guitar start

    off in one channel and slowly pan all the way to the other channel. If the vocal move towards the

    listener as it gets close to the middle there is too much toe in, if the vocal moves away from the

    listener there is too little toe in. It should sound as if McCartney's vocals roll smoothly and

    continuously across the sound stage. If it sounds like he jumps from Right to Center to Left the speakers

    are too far apart.

    after i did that, followed our hosts advice.
    in total, i can only say WOOOOOOOOOW
    My speakers were not in a strict triangle with same sides, so i needed to play a little. But now i am just shocked in what i hear. i put revelations from iron maiden and its like i never heard it before. Thank you Mr Steve Hoffman, thank you guys. i am in heaven
    GerryO, painted8, dasacco and 2 others like this.
  5. eyeCalypso

    eyeCalypso Forum Resident

    Colorado, USA
    I don't know of it's my copy or what but the whole song starting with the vocals tend to crescendo all the way through. I even switched speakers and it does the same thing going the other way.
  6. nsenger

    nsenger Active Member

    Spokane, WA
    Ok, so this is my first post on the forums! After reading these forums for the last few months I had to join just so I could say how much this advice worked for my speaker setup. I got some Polk Audio T50s last Christmas and the stereo imaging has never sounded better thanks to using "Waterloo Sunset" to help with the toe-in. The room I'm in doesn't lend itself to much speaker movement right now, but this really worked.

    The only problem I had was having to reduce the toe-in a bit when I started getting headaches and what seemed like a loss of vocals in the soundstage. After some slight tweaking it sounds great and I'm not getting the headaches.

    Using "Waterloo Sunset" was a great tip!
    hi_watt and All Down The Line like this.
  7. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    hi_watt likes this.
  8. nsenger

    nsenger Active Member

    Spokane, WA
    Seriously, headaches. I can't explain it, but when the speakers are toed in too much the soundstage bothers my hearing to the degree that I get a headache, like listening fatigue. I stopped listening to music for a day until the headache went away, then put the speakers back in their old position and no headache. But when I toed them in again too far the headache returned. I (painfully) kept experimenting until I found a position that didn't bother me. I thought maybe I had it turned up too high so I could hear the soundstage better, or I was subconsciously straining too hard to hear the details in the music, but I think I ruled both of those out.

    Maybe toeing the speakers in too far makes it too bright for my ears, maybe it's the fact that in the past I've had benign paroxysmal positional vertigo, I have no idea. All I know is that if I'm not careful how far I toe in the speakers, then I am bound to get a headache.
    hi_watt likes this.
  9. hakstone

    hakstone Musically curious

    Now that I've toe'd in a bit I'm hearing so much more detail.
  10. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

  11. Joel1963

    Joel1963 Senior Member

    I'm using my Apple office computer at home. Listened to Waterloo Sunset and what I seem to hear is Ray's lead vocal WAY behind me and to the right. Quite the effect. Same thing with Jimi Hendrix's vocal on Purple Haze.
  12. Dee Zee

    Dee Zee Once Upon a Dream

    Steve, rookie question. Recently had two ceiling speakers installed for surround and wired back to amp during major renovation of rec room. I assumed the red and black cables were correctly wired to the speakers— but in case they weren’t Is there a way to check surround phase on a 5.1 set-up? any tips greatly appreciated.
  13. Dee Zee

    Dee Zee Once Upon a Dream

    I Found a solution. I have the Disney WOW A/V set up disc and it has a 5.1 polarity test on there. The surround speakers were out of phase.
    Steve Hoffman likes this.
  14. Dayfold

    Dayfold Forum Resident

    After many attempts over the last couple of years at trying to get my speakers placed to hear the effects discussed in this thread, I finally got there last night. Now, after moving some furniture around as well as adjusting speaker position, I can finally hear exactly what you're all talking about with the background vocals sounding like they're floating right around as if coming from hidden speakers in the walls opposite my ears. It's brilliant!

    And now, at last, I also understand why Steve recommended that Deep Forest track. I bought the CD that the song is on a while back. Now I can hear the 'surround sound' effect - it's used brilliantly throughout this album and it had me grinning from ear to ear.

    Why isn't this effect used more often on records? It's great!

    Cheers Steve!
    Joel1963 and Steve Hoffman like this.
  15. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Glad you broke through!
    Dayfold likes this.
  16. Norman garriock

    Norman garriock Forum Resident

    Orkney, Scotland
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
    JP Christian likes this.
  17. AnalogJ

    AnalogJ Hearing In Stereo Since 1959

    Salem, MA
    I have found different speakers are affected by toeing in, toeing on, or being straight at the listener in different ways. My Castle Eden speakers sound best toed out a bit, so I see the inner side walls of the speaker.

    I haven't tried your test, but when listening to any record with Q Audio, the desired effect is quite present. When I play "Amused To Death", for example, when the dog barks, it sounds like it's coming from outside the house.

    By the way, toeing in with my speakers makes the sound more closed in. Focus is there, but the soundstage gets reined in, whereas toeing out a bit provides more air and depth of soundstage. Toeing out too much and the sound loses focus and I get a hole in the middle of the soundstage. In the Edens, the tweeter is placed underneath the woofer, with the port facing out underneath both.
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2020
  18. Andr3w D

    Andr3w D Active Member

    Black Ice DAC, $679 shipped
    Hana SL, $750 installed and setup
    Finding this thread and taking our kind hosts advice, PRICELESS
  19. Norman garriock

    Norman garriock Forum Resident

    Orkney, Scotland
    WOWSERS...well I adjusted my speakers as suggested and certainly found better depth to most things. But tonight playing The Clash 'Super Black Market', Justice Tonight / Kick It Over" the bells in the middle of the dub suddenly tinged beside me...then the other sounds seemed to spread out too. I was surrounded by the stereo mix. Lovely. And I wasn't even enhanced myself, just relaxed in the music.
    Echoes Myron and mozz like this.
  20. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host Thread Starter

    Good times..
  21. Crush87

    Crush87 Forum Resident

    New York
    Hooked up my new Wharfedale Lintons, can't seem to get this right.
  22. Joel1963

    Joel1963 Senior Member

    The Clash's Sandinista has industrial, clanging sounding surround effects.
  23. Echoes Myron

    Echoes Myron Forum Resident

    Will have to check that out--which song? I have the US and UK vinyl...
  24. Joel1963

    Joel1963 Senior Member

    The album as a whole, IIRC. It's listed at QuadraphonicQuad as an album that decodes well in quad.
    Echoes Myron likes this.
  25. Joel1963

    Joel1963 Senior Member

    Just to further clarify, I haven't done any toeing in, I'm listening to music on a Sony boombox type stereo system in my small acoustically interesting bedroom, and on some recordings, you can hear sounds behind you, and beside you on the left and right. Especially noteworthy in terms of sounds "behind you" are some backing vocals on From Elvis in Memphis, George Harrison's lead vocal on It's All Too Much, the backing vocal "ooooh, la, la, la,la" on Abba's Watch Out and other backing vocals on Abba's Hey Hey Helen.
    Echoes Myron likes this.

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