Playing 45's: The Difference Between Styrene and Vinyl?

Playing 45's

How can I tell if a 45 is plastic and not vinyl? I have a Shure V15VxMR, and I want to make sure that I don't damage any of my 45's by playing them with this cartridge. I have heard that the micro ridge stylus could damage the groves of plastic 45's.

 

From what I've read somewhere once upon a time (maybe here), the easy way to see if you have a styrene 45 (instead of vinyl) is to look at the edge. It won't have any kind of "special" edge to it. It will be very straight & flat, and will be even height-wise with the rest of the record's "body" (for lack of a better term) across its entire edge.

 

Ok, thanks! Thats what I thought, but I wanted to be sure.

 

If the styrene 45s are worn, you can almost see it--it's like a white-ish appearance to the grooves.

FWIW, first time I ever played a few of my almost new styrene 45s on my then-new V15 Type V way back when it came out, I was amazed that they actually played without most of the distortion.

 

A well-cared-for styrene pressing doesn't have to sound bad.

 

They're easier for Mom to break, though.

 

Well, in my house back in the day, it was me or my kid brother doing the breaking......I grew out of that, can't speak for the kid, though....

Styrene records can play very well, but they're just more fragile and prone to groove wear...which is to say, a worn needle seems to do more damage to them than to vinyl, but if your stylus is good and tracking weight correct, you should be Ok. And while even a warn styrene 45 can play Ok if you've got a Shure(or equal or better)cart/stylus, the damage, once done, can be disastrous. In other words, takes longer to destroy a good piece of vinyl than a good piece of styrene. That's why, starting in the '70s, Kinks collectors noticed that a lot of promo singles were pressed on vinyl for radio, while the majority(though not all)of the stocks were styrene, thus driving up the price of the promo 45's. And due to the worn condition of so much used styrene from way back, if I can snag a reasonably decent vinyl copy of singles more easily found on styrene, I consider it a big coup.

There are some labels in the '60s that did what seem to be styrene Lp pressings at times...Chess/Checker(my copy of BO DIDDLEY IS A LOVER), some Laurie(several of my solo Dion's), Red Bird(a Shangri-Las Lp and a hits comp), among others....brittle stuff,and, peculiarly, the Liberty/Imperial budget label Sunset(though not Liberty/Imperial label stuff, those seem exclusively vinyl on Lp, if not 45...)easily cracked, I'm afraid, and more prone to groove damage and wear.

 

I've got a styrene LP somewhere, found in Dad's old collection of LPs. Can't even remember the title or the label, but it feels really strange. Definitely not "unbreakable"!

Mom broke one of my 45s when she caught me standing in front of the new Magnavox console, spinning the single around on the sliding lid while an LP played. Lesson learned!

 

Hmmm, new styrene can look pretty shiny too. Granted, the shiny surface quickly goes away if played with a worn stylus.

There are many easier tells, in my opinion:

1. The labels on a styrene record are either glued on or painted on. (Painted vinyl labels are common too...especially on European singles from the 70s and 80s.) It's easy to spot a glued-on label...you will either feel an edge to the label and/or you will often see the label "bubble" in spots where it didn't stick to the record. On a vinyl single, the label is stamped into the vinyl and there is no feel-able edge. It's flush with the surface of the record and there are rarely any bubbles.

2. The record has a more uniform thickness throughout and the styrene feels lighter in weight, but is more rigid than vinyl. Tap the plastic with your fingernail. On a styrene record, you'll get a higher pitched "tink, tink" sound. On a vinyl record, it will be a duller "tock, tock" sound.

3. As has already been said, the edge of the record will be non-tapered and will be squared off. If you look really closely, you'll see a faint line on the edge where the two molds came together.

4. Know your labels. Some record labels, such as Capitol records, rarely used styrene in the 50s-70s. Other labels, such as Columbia, very often (but not always) used styrene during the same years. Styrene is also much less common in European countries. I don't think I've ever seen a UK single pressed in styrene, but they may exist. For my Simon and Garfunkel 45s, the US copies are almost always pressed in styrene. And my Canadian copies are almost always pressed in vinyl. There are exceptions, of course.

Personally, I have no problem with styrene if it's relatively fresh and un-worn. It can sound a lot quieter than vinyl when it's new. Properly cared for, you can get a lot of plays out of a styrene single.

 

I know there's been controversy over playing styrene with certain fine line styli, and sometimes there can be, but not always. I could name two contrary examples: When playing Cozy Cole "Topsy II", I noticed a high pitch noise when I lowered the AT440ML stylus into the groove (stylus damaging the groove?, or possibly pre-existing?), so I tried my Signet AM20S (nude elliptical) and the noise disappeared, the record played great. On the other side of things, per recommendations, I tried a clean copy (not sure if it was ever played? perhaps it was) Jimmy Buffett "Changes In Latitude, Changes In Attitude" original ABC label 45 with a conical stylus (had surface noise, as if it were worn), then varying elliptical with very little improvement, but then when I tried out my Ortofon Stylus 40 (FG70), it played as if it was brand new. I know there has been advise against playing styrene 45s with a certain elliptical styli, yet it is said that a conical stylus introduces it's own kind of distortions, because it's "reading" the groove differently than the original "fine line" cutter which was used to cut the record. I guess the best thing to do is first try any given stylus on "worthless" (or common ones that are easily replaced) styrene 45s, just to be sure, before playing any valuable styrene 45s. Just a thought.

 

I've come across styrene singles that look to be nearly mint, but have tell-tale groove wear that is sometimes only evident upon playback. Trying different styli will sometimes allow you to find an unworn part of the groove for a clean feedback. My guess is that the Ortofon stylus you used managed to find part of the groove that the other styli didn't find. Of course, that's no guarantee the Ortofon will play the next worn styrene single with similar results. It often depends on the stylus size and shape that did the actual damage in the first place.

 

while your on the subject are the old partridge family albums on vinyl or styrene? thanks

 

I would be willing to bet that most Columbia/CBS/Kirshner/Epic/Portrait 45's are styrene then, because they usually sound fuzzy if I get them used, regardless of the "grading". Yes, I'm talking Ebay purchases. Same with some RCA and Chrysalis 45's. I've noticed a pattern with these record brands. I do have some white and gray label Columbia 45's that sound incredible. But not the orange ones. Probably pressed at a different plant. I prefer Capitol/EMI and Warner Bros. records. Also Elektra.

 

One mistake I've made with styrene records is playing them with a fine line stylus. For some reason, they seem to ruin styrene records. I've not had this issue with elliptical styli though.

A_L

 

On all 45 RPM singles, use a light tracking .7 mil conical equipped broadcast cartridge for best playback. I prefer the Stanton 681A to everything else or it's Pickering XV 15 DJ cousin. I love the Ortofon OM line versatility, but wish they would make a .7 mil conical which would track lighter than 3 grams. I would want something tracking around 1.75-2 grams force. The Shure M 44-G or M 44-7 or M 35x are also nice choices. I also prefer these options for mono LP discs and early Stereo LP use as well.

 

Your other suggestions are also correct, but I agree with Steve, and would say that's probably the easiest way for a novice to determine the difference. On both vinyl and styrene, the *dead wax* will be shiny, but only on vinyl will the *groove area* be shiny. If you hold vinyl up closely to a light bulb, it will reflect very clearly in the groove area, to the point where you can see the filament. If you do the same with styrne, you'll just see something fuzzy. I've never seen styrene with a mirror-like finish in the groove area, even with NOS 45s.

I've had problems with my "microline" AT440MLa shredding styrene, but my "line contact" AT331LP/8008 seems to play styrene without any problems.

 

Some do fine, some do not do fine. Same goes for Elliptical styli. I have a Stanton N680E which does not shred styrene. And sounds really great on 45 singles. Always try a new stylus on styrene you don't want to keep first, a safe rule of thumb. I recommend limiting this practice to manual turntables only where you can carefully put the stylus on the lead in by hand and then start the motor.

 

The basic problem of any vinyl--and most of all, 45's--is its history before YOU get hold of it. There are enough anomalies and variances for sealed Lp's, let alone what gets fobbed off as 'mint' Lp's or 45 vinyl, styrene or otherwise.

But in my experience styrene is so much more prone to wear and tear even from a new needle, let alone what copies go through at radio stations, home TT's, etc. Recently, though, I was surprised that a seeming VG copy of a 1966 Columbia styrene DJ of "Green Acres" (Flatt & Scruggs w/June Carter, 4-43497) not only sounded clean and had a nice acoustic bass sound, but the grooves for a 2:07 song were wide enough to allow some real fidelity to come through from a slightly scuffed but decent 45. And the record was despite wear pretty shiny (yes, even the grooves!) But that doesn't happen enough, otherwise this thread shouldn't exist.

 

Very interesting discussion. I have many styrene 45's, despite I'm in Europe where these were never produced. They were imported from the USA when exchange rates were in favour of the European currencies and the artists were of American origin. So I have many Barry White 45's from the mid 70's on styrene.

The problems with fine line styli on styrene occur due to the very small footprint ( in fact a vertical line in the groove ) The styrene is heated and due to the fact styrene can't bend in any way, the groove will be damaged, small particles simply break off. But........this is only the case if a fine line stylus isn't adjusted with the care these styli demand. So even the slightest misadjustment will result in a tremendous extra load ( wrong anti skate settings ) on one side of the groove. Hence the cue burns if back cueing a styrene 45. Vinyl records are less sensitive but these records can be damaged as well. Fine line needles must not be used if the cartridges' compliance is very low, so the needle suspention is quite stiff. There are some around, such as immitations for carts that had a very flexible ( compliance ) cantilever suspension such as the Stanton 881-S. The original Stanton replacement needles will leave your styrene 45's undamaged if properly set up according to the manufacturers guidelines. The original stylus on the 881-S is too compliant for many heavier tone arms, thus fake immitations were/are made less compliant in an attempt to make them useable for heavier tone arms, consequently forming potential hazards for styrene records.

I also own the AT-440MLa and the AT150, the latter having a higher compliance cantilever. Now with the 440 I sometimes hear the strange noise described earlier in this thread. Not so with the 150. The 440 has a stiffer cantilever so it might damage styrene 45's if not set up properly. Despite the very same needle point. The AT150 has a lighter boron cantilever, this is a very good cart for playing 45's giving undistorted reproduction. Downside..it will set you back quite some money. But it is worth its money.

 

So you've had no issues at all with the MLX150 on styrene then, Willem? Do you know how it compares with the Jico SAS for a Shure V15 VxMR re compliance? Both styli appear to be made by the same manufacturer, with both utilizing a boron cantilever.

 

No complaints at all. I never had a Shure other than the one in my Rock-Ola juke box.
Be careful with fakes, we have a company here in Holland named Tonar. They make very good replacements but the compliance is nearly always not the same as the originals. The plastic mouldings are exactly the same, that is, they look the same but if you take a close look at the inside, you can see differences. Other than that, fakes do not have uniform quality, one can be good, the other may not. I have sold them in our shop, never had complaints with originals, quite a few with fake replacements though. Where spherical needles are not that critical, stereohedron is because there were even differences between Stanton and Pickering. It seems only Pickering made real stereohedrons, if that's true I only heard rumours as a matter of fact, coming from different sources, that's a fact. I have a Pickering XV-15 with a D1800 needle in it and it outperforms the 681-EEE with ease. They both are stereohedrons, that actually is a special elliptical design. So maybe these rumours are true. The fine line designs are more sophisticated, stereohedron is right in the middle of elliptical and fine line, van den Hull and the like. Fine line designs need not only accurate adjustment, but also low tone arm bearing friction and preferably high cantilever compliances. That's where the fakes are not constant enough.

Greetings,
Willem.