Please explain the Naim mystique...

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by ghostofzuul, Apr 6, 2020.

  1. chrism1971

    chrism1971 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glos, UK
    I have long experience of Naim up to about 2010. When I bought a second-hand 42/110 pre/power in the mid-80s it certainly sounded cleaner, more tonally neutral (cool) and more solid and reliable than amps I'd tried up to then - Quad, A&R, Musical Fidelity, Nytech to name 4. An earlier Rogers A75 was a lovely amp but didn't have the speaker grabbing power of the Naim. I had mark 1 Linn Kans with that and loved it … till I started to miss a bit of bass.

    Since then I think their amps have gone sort of sideways. The 250 sounds a bit too fruity, the later and very expensive preamps don't seem to add much to (say) and 82 from the 90s, and the whole lot have to be left turned on 24/7. Coupled with which, you can hear the fluctuations in the mains supply in terms of clarity - though maybe not so much now they've introduced the DR regulation, which I've not heard.

    On the other hand their digital sources have certainly improved. But even there, you get Naimees buying a super expensive streamer like the NDX and then running it through another DAC (the, er, DAC). And adding a power supply (though to which box I've lost track).

    Personally I feel the whole thing developed into a bit of a monster a few years ago, especially after they were bought out by Focal, when any of the original 'UK cottage industry' sense finally went. I now use (recent) Exposure amps and various sources including Rega decks. All good.
     
  2. Tone?

    Tone? Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco

    It ain’t happening man.

    After listening to two days straight with the NAIM it’s not there. late last night I put the Rega Elex R back on and the “magic” came back.
    now I wanted to hear every piece of music wanted again.
    Lushness is back.
    Huge soundstage. sweet tube like mids.
    I played violin for a few years and one of the cool things is you can hear the reverberation from the violins f hole. The rega captures that. If that makes sense.
     
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  3. Tone?

    Tone? Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco

    Like I said above.
    Nope the Naim ain’t cutting it.

    Listened for two days straight.
    Music was punchy but the ‘ magic’ was gone.

    Gonna repeat myself here.

    The Naim.....has punchiness
    But it doesn’t draw you in.
    Let me explain. ....


    The Naim has the punch. It’s tight no doubt. But it’s so tight that it ‘ strangles ‘ the decay and thus the reverberation of instruments.
    You put on the Rega and this ‘ magic ‘ comes back.
    You can hear Miles Davis horn and hear the brass. Hear the wind through through the instrument. Coltrane come in on the tune and you can hear his breath. The sax sounds big. Life like.
    Switch to YYZ rush. Pert is doing his solo. With the Rega you can hear the difference between ever drum. You can differentiate between all of the drums.
    The Naim doesn’t do this. The drums are punchier. But it narrows the bandwidth so you can’t really tell one Tom from another.
    With the Rega you can hear the space between the instruments.
    Clearly. Oh there’s the piano player. There is the upright bass. There is the horn

    Soundstage.
    The Rega is huge. Majestic.
    The Naim is much more narrow. Instruments are closer. Can’t immediately tell the distance between them. With the Rega it’s effortless.

    The Rega takes enough time so you can fully concentrate on each instrument.

    Lush.
    In flamenco sketches you can hear this one passage that Coltrane plays and it draws you in.

    In a nutshell. The Rega has this ‘ magic’. Draws you in.
    You are hooked.
    Sweet sweet mids.

    Pardon for the ramble.
     
    kiddo4, Helom, PATB and 1 other person like this.
  4. jeff kleinberg

    jeff kleinberg Senior Member

    Location:
    Ct
    Chris West is very clear on this as well. He recommend using rca to din, rather than using rca in on a straight through input board to my preamp. He said the common ground gives better sound.
     
    Josquin des Prez likes this.
  5. bhazen

    bhazen I Am The Walrus

    Location:
    Deepest suburbia
    Elex would certainly be on my shortlist of amps to hear again if for some unlikely reason I had to replace my Nait XS2. I heard the Elex as being maybe a bit more "tube-y" than my Nait.

    Rega are "more affordable" Naim, in my opinion.
     
    AndreaNaim likes this.
  6. brubacca

    brubacca Forum Resident

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Rega was always looked at as more affordable Naim, but this latest generation is something special in and of itself.

    The Sound is obviously a bit different with Rega being a bit more rounded and the corresponding Naim pieces being well more Naim sounding.

    Its like chocolate and vanilla except vanilla starts their amps at almost half the price. (I like both.) It may sound crazy, but for awhile I used a Naim UnitiQute with digital output to Rega DAC into a Rogue Cronus Tube Amp. It sounded great.

    Naim make great products and so does Rega. Its a personal preference thing.
     
    bhazen and Tone? like this.
  7. Thorensman

    Thorensman Forum Resident

    Some years ago when i ran aNaim 42/110
    I borrowed for the weekend
    A Naim 82 preamp with 2 hi caps
    And a Naim CDI cd player.
    What can i say, best sound i have heard
    Particularly on CD.
    It blew my vinyl front end which was class leading at the time( 1990?)
    Out of the water.
    Some years later, i borrowed another
    CDI, BUT ALAS, the magic was not there.
    Having recently found the preamp of my dreams, i began to realise that irrespective of power amp , if preamp is lacking, you can forget it.
    To cut a long story short.
    The 82 preamp was the star of that show.
    So no mystery Naim gear fabuluous.
    Now, i am not saying it can,t be equalled.
    Or even bettered and done cheaper.
     
  8. Dream On

    Dream On Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    The Sugden/Spendor combo I have sounds like what you are describing with Rega.

    Anyways, it sounds like you have what you want then. No need to keep looking; sit back and enjoy the music.
     
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  9. Tone?

    Tone? Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco

    They are completely different actually from my back to back audition at home.

    The Rega is fast and has the rhythm but is more tube sounding with a wider sound stage.
    The Naim grabs on to to the woofer more and is more punchy. But for my tastes it’s too much of a good thing.
     
  10. Tone?

    Tone? Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco

    Yup. I ‘ missed’ my stereo these three days trying out the Naim.
    Don’t get me wrong it’s a good amp. I can see where the hype is.
    It’s just a different sound.
     
  11. Dream On

    Dream On Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    I would just give it longer personally - I'm going to live with the XS2 for a month or two at least, even if I don't like what it's doing. Not because I really believe in long break in times, but why not eliminate that possibility if you can? That said, if you don't dig the sound at all now, it probably won't be changing so much that it beats the Rega for you, especially if you dig the Rega's sound a lot.
     
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  12. Tone?

    Tone? Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco

    Yeah I’ll leave it plugged in and see if it opens up at all. For sure.
     
  13. Tone?

    Tone? Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    If the Naim was a tad more open and a tad more relaxed it would be a winner.

    Let’s see if the burn in does it
     
    bhazen likes this.
  14. bhazen

    bhazen I Am The Walrus

    Location:
    Deepest suburbia
    Do you leave your gear powered up at all times?
     
    Tone? likes this.
  15. Josquin des Prez

    Josquin des Prez I have spoken!

    Location:
    U.S.
    I would be unsurprised if that is in fact what happens.
     
    Tone? likes this.
  16. Tone?

    Tone? Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco

    Yup. Never turn it off
     
    bhazen likes this.
  17. Tone?

    Tone? Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco

    You think man? I’ll see. Leaving it on
     
  18. Josquin des Prez

    Josquin des Prez I have spoken!

    Location:
    U.S.
    Might be. It's been that way for me before. My NDX2 opened up and lost some edge after about a month. I bought my 300DR new too, and it really settled down to a much better sound after about a month. However, I did like them both right out of the box.

    In the end there is no gear that suits everyone.
     
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  19. Tone?

    Tone? Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    You know man. That’s totally right. I know that from guitar gear.
    Everyone has a sound in their head , and that holds true for stereo manufacturers as well.
    Why i call ******** on transparency. They all have a sound in their head which they like. And if it suits you then it’s a match.
     
    bhazen and Josquin des Prez like this.
  20. Dream On

    Dream On Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    There is a good chance I will like the XS2, because I'm after a great sense of pace and timing, with explosive dynamics. I like amps that have a solid grip on each woofer, because I think that helps to convey the energy and pace within music.

    Then I hear my Sugden/Spendor combo, and that specializes more in decay and tone. The harmonics and body of each instrument are clearer. The pace and timing are still very good but it's not quite as exciting. But hearing more of what each instrument sounds like is definitely addictive as well. This sound is more suited to sparser arrangements (this system sounds great with rock and metal, but it's not it's forté - good enough that I could live with it though).

    A system will perhaps specialize in one of these two areas, but it shouldn't do so at the complete exclusion of the other.
     
    bhazen and Tone? like this.
  21. Tone?

    Tone? Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Amazingly enough man the Rega captures the timing really well. It’s kinda in the sweet spot of tightness and letting the instruments breathe.
     
  22. jeff kleinberg

    jeff kleinberg Senior Member

    Location:
    Ct

    The 82 was my first serious preamp, ran it with hicaps, then a supercap. Amazing sound. Upgraded to the 52, have not looked back, more of the same great qualities.
     
    Josquin des Prez and Thorensman like this.
  23. Josquin des Prez

    Josquin des Prez I have spoken!

    Location:
    U.S.
    Yeah, really nice. I've had nearly a 35 year journey since I started with my 42.5/HC/140 and now feel like I'm end game with my system. Good thing since I retire in about 3 years...although I would enjoy adding a SuperCap on my SuperLine.
     
    jeff kleinberg likes this.
  24. purevinyl

    purevinyl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest
    :thumbsup:
     
  25. purevinyl

    purevinyl Forum Resident

    Location:
    Midwest
    :edthumbs:
     

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