Josquin and others: I am not going to take back my findings (over time) but feel I should provide some more background. I have no axe to grind or any anti Naim agenda. After being a fan of high end audio for decades the one thing I have concluded is that the most useless word in the audiophile world is “always”. As in this is always better than that, etc. My main system is all Linn. Linn and Naim are often targeted with the same dismissive brush. There is also a strong rivalry between Linn and Naim. Some of this is friendly and some of it is quite bent out of shape. Both are strong systems supported by experienced fans. I started by upgrading my main system with a Linn Majik DSM and Linn M140 floorstanding speakers with the metal upgrade stands. The Majik is Linn’s entry level streamer/DAC/amp one box system. Fabulous solution for $3000. You can move up the line to the top end Linn Klimax DSM for like $24,000. There are a bunch of options between these two extremes. One of the major attractions is Linn’s Space Optimization technology which lets you map out your room in incredible detail and then produce a profile that addresses your desired speaker location vs the best sounding speaker location. Naim folks are impressed with how strong SO is. I then upgraded my Majik to a Linn Akurate System Hub that feeds into an ExaktBox with eight separate Katalyst DACS and eight onboard amps for the speakers (4 per side). The two boxes are connected with an Ethernet cable. This is a great system and sounds amazing. I just wanted to go with a different and more flexible option for my second system. This evolved over time with the Pass Labs, Linn and Spendor kit I have currently...
No worries. It's all good. I've already said I believe Naim isn't for everyone, and I have no stake in anyone liking or hating it. I'm a long tine fan, but that's 100% because it helps connect me to enjoying music. I honestly don't care about all the audiophile arcana otherwise. People loving their music is the best, no matter how they arrive at it.
Josquin, what components do you have? What speakers do you have? And how did you address your room? After playing at this game with different systems, constant upgrades at two locations I have come to the well known conclusion that the room is the key factor...
It's all [the gear, etc] listed in my profile. I don't do professional/audiophile room treatments per say. Our listening room is a family room and I want it to be warm and welcoming, not look like a recording studio with treatments and traps all over the place.
Tone, this is soooooooo true. My main audition with the fancy Naim gear was with new Spendor D9s. I now have about 300 hours with these fabulous speakers at this location. These speakers have improved DRAMATICALLY with time. I bet the experience with matching that same Naim stack with these speakers now would make for a different improved sound. I used to regard the whole “burn in” concept with some suspicion but after working with two systems over time I am a big believer in the whole gig...
As a side note to all this: I have experienced a lot of kit and for around $1000 on the used market the Rega Elex-R amp is a great choice...
I think you have to like the initial sound sig before the break in tho. I’d love to hear those Spendors for sure. i got my Proac DT8’s used which I think is great since I auditioned a ton of speakers a couple years ago and fell in love with these. So I got them broken in outta the box.
My side note is that I’m listening to Mozart violin concerto no 2 and I feel like the violin is in the room with me. I hate using this word but it’s organic as hell. Sounds like vinyl. Loving it. Addictive
Cool! I have done a lot of testing with Sonos, Rega, Linn, Naim, Bryston and Pass Labs. In all kinds of combinations. I have traveled to around six dealer showrooms. Listened to a whole bunch of systems and speakers. Quite enjoyed some of the tube stuff. But I love the Pass Labs based system I now have on my “second system”...
I think the way to go is if you can listen to something at a show or audio store then take the time to audition at home. btw. As a musician there is no “ slower” amp. I tested both the REGA and Naim with an A440 tone and user my strobe tuner and they both were spot on A440. it’s tightness they are referring to. Which I think translates into a fast/tight sounding amp.
Yes. Now I kinda know which direction I want to acquire the sound I like in my head. It was a super good experience and one of the reasons I did it. I was asking a friend on this forum if he thought I would be able to tell the differences between amps. I wasn’t sure what to expect. These two amps are night and day almost. I was very surprised at how the manufacturers heard and created their sounds so different. Very cool experience. would love to know how all the components in stereo amps add to the sound as I learned in guitar tube amps. very interesting.
Funny thing is, to my ears both Exposure and Avondale have been even-more-Naim-than-Naim in terms of sound signature but neither achieved the same profile.
I'm at 117 hours now on the XS2. Most of the time I have it playing when I am not around to really listen to it, which I think helps. I generally like to listen to equipment when it breaks in, but this way at least you avoid the possibility of the sound changing gradually, which might make it easier to notice differences. The change is actually quite significant after this length of time. Much better separation of instruments, a wider soundstage, and more smoothness. I'm still missing out on depth, but I don't think that's what Naim does. Separation and width are also not what Naim specializes in, but at least these aspects of the sound are much less distracting now. Waiting for about 200 to 250 hours before I really begin to listen critically.
Maybe it's just a question of what you're used to. I've been using Naim gear for years. I always buy used, and I wait for the piece that I'm looking for at the price I am looking for and then grab it. In my experience, I can generally sell pieces for very close to the price I paid for them as the gear holds it's value incredibly well. Using this approach I've moved up from the Uniti series to the 500 Range in a relatively short time period (10-ish years). I've listened to Mark Levinson gear in the 100 K range and found it analytical and boring (to my ears). I've walked into demo rooms in hifi shops and shows and listened to gear costing stupid stupid money, and just didn't think they sounded very engaging. To me those rooms often sound more like tech demos than music reproduction. Of course, the musical selections might have something to do with that also. On the other hand, I've also heard little standmounts at shows which weren't expensive and blew me away (Totem Sky)... so I bought some to pair with my Supernait 2 in my 2nd system. I've also recently heard the Cambridge Edge line, which I'm really impressed with. Not sure that I'll do anything about it, but it's refreshing to me to hear other gear that makes music in a way my ears and brain appreciates But I'll always be a Naim guy I think. I love the way it sounds, love the minimalist industrial look, and to me, their upgrade path philosophy makes sense. And if you disagree with their pricing on new... as said... you can buy used... or you can buy 3rd party power supplies (which I've purchased and enjoyed) for less $$.
Have borrowed a Supernait 3 from my local dealer and will be trying it out for the next week or so. Potentially looking at replacing my Musical Fidelity 6i - I have not heard a different amp for years and I guess I was curious to experience the Naim sound.
I used a 42.5/140 for years Switched to valve. I heard one recently Very good indeed. What i failed to grasp ( this was the 80,s,) that a change of preamp would have changed things No end. Cd was poor, using the 42.5, simply As itwas mismatched! ( no Cd input, just Aux) Overly sensitive. Attenuation helped, But still poor. Now when I heard the 82 preamp Driving same poweramp, oh my God The Cd input now worked better than vinyl using( on loan,) the CD1 player. Any product can be serviced upgraded. Excellent service dept. A colleague used a croft pre with the160 Power amp. Tubes and solid state Rather good. Outputs seem low, but don,t be fooled. They have high current Delivery, drive anything. Linn, got together with Naim as the 250 poweramp drove his Isobarik better than anything else. They could sound 'a bit in your face These days they are quite mellow.
Absolutely agree on pre-amps @Thorensman. I recently bought a used Naim NAC282 pre.....goodness, what a step up in SQ from my old XS2 and its replacement (until 282), SuperNait 3. To say I am hugely impressed, and over-the-moon happy, is an understatement. Now to change the power amp to a NAP 250DR, and I reckon that's me done on the upgrade quest. This level of musical satisfaction will see me out quite happily...
Yes, when driven by a superb preamp The Naim set up is par for the course 82 preamp still imbeded into my memory Not cheap, but if looked on as a long Term investment, it makes sense. A good preamp cures a lot of problems That other pieces of the chain get blamed I recall even today Smokey Robinsons ' Tears of a Clowne a track i know inside out. Through a NAP 140 power amp 82 pre, and Naim CDI and Epos 14,s the saxophone so prominent and 2 feet from. Speaker. Never managed to get that sound even today. Ah well ... .
So I listened to the Supernait 3 last night for a couple of hours. Initial impressions are that it is VERY bright. Too bright for my liking. Now, this is a demo amp and I have no idea how many hours are on it. I have left it playing some background music while I am at work today to see if it will calm down a little. Of course, I am used to the Musical Fidelity sound - the 6i is a big old woolly mammoth of an amp and far more laid back than the Naim. Opposite ends of the scale I suppose although I was not expecting quite as much difference. My speakers are Spendor D7.2 which are very revealing and I have heard that they can tip over into brittle with the wrong partnering equipment so maybe that is the case here. I will keep playing the Naim over the weekend and see how I feel but at the moment my good old faithful Musical Fidelity 6i will remain with me for the foreseeable future.
Could be an unfortunate pairing, but perhaps make sure to check the influence of cabling. Naim can sound off with some cables. Are you using Naim cabling?
