PLX-1000 vs Denon VL12 vs SL 1200 MK7

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by curiousgeorge, Aug 27, 2019.

  1. brimuchmuze

    brimuchmuze Forum Resident

    Why do you think vinyl will sound better than a SACD?
     
  2. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    I used to not hear it very well, I knew I was getting some distortions at points but IGD seemed exhaggerated since it would affect the whole sound.
    Now Im much more sensitive and easily pick it out.
     
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  3. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    Not sure he ever said that. But they can, its always a case to case basis.
     
    Cyclone Ranger likes this.
  4. Cyclone Ranger

    Cyclone Ranger New old stock

    Location:
    Best Coast USA
    Well, I’ve been listening to vinyl off-and-on for 40 years now... still no IGD issues.

    Maybe in another 40 years? ;)
    .
     
  5. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic Autodidact Debater

    Location:
    Uppsala Sweden
    Lets hope.
     
    bever70 likes this.
  6. Gibsonian

    Gibsonian Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa, USA
    IGD free and glad of it here in Iowa as well!
     
    Cyclone Ranger likes this.
  7. McLover

    McLover Forum Resident

    Location:
    East TN
    The Technics SL-1200 Mk 7 will outperform the other two turntables. And with care will be doing it's job when the wannabees are in landfills. Tonearm is considerably better, antiskating works as intended, the arm bearings aren't loose, and the quality control is orders of magnitude better, not to mention the Technics is higher precision in every way.
     
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  8. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    I have had IGD with the 2M line (Red and Blue), but never with my other elliptical carts. I run 3 Denons: Zu 103, 110, and 301/II, all elliptical, and never ad an IGD issue with them. Also Shure M97HE, the original one, not the xE, but that one is hyper-elliptical, no issues, either.

    My guess is it also has to do with build quality/design).
     
  9. nosliw

    nosliw Azunyan! にゃーーー!

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    Regarding records that are hotly cut, sibilant, and IGD, I recommend checking out the thread created by @patient_ot on what records are more prone to these issues: Vinyl Torture Tracks - Inner Grooves, Sibilants, Hotly Cut Tracks, Sudden Volume Bursts, etc.

    Sometimes it can be mitigated with the proper phono stage with its correct load and handling high mV cartridges, use a more advanced stylus shape, adjust the cartridge alignment, etc. But there are records that are simply poorly cut from the get-go.

    And yes, there are some people that aren't able to discern IGD, but then again I came across others who literally cannot or even refuse to hear IGD, surface noise, egregious pitch wavering, pops and clicks, etc.
     
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  10. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Yahorng is the name that escapes you - not an easy one to remember.
     
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  11. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    I'm honestly amazed that even now, when Technics is back with the MK7, people are still considering clones if its predecessor, for only a couple of hundred bucks less?

    Those "Denon" and "Pioneer" decks are NOT bona fide Denon or Pioneer - they're ripoff imitations of Technics 1200 Mk2 of yesteryear, with minor variations, built by OEM factories in China and Taiwan that churn out cheap stuff by the millions, for the benefit of murky companies that only buy licenses for use of those venerable names and have nothing to do whatsoever with the original companies.

    The new Technics is the REAL thing - still engineered, built, and marketed by the same venerable company that those rep-off artists are still trying to imitate. The new Mk7 is $999 - only $100 more than the so called "Denon" and $300 more than the so called "Pioneer". It should be a no-brainer decision, really. I don't know how you can even consider those other ones legitimate competition in the same league.

    My 2 cents.
     
    Big Blue, Eigenvector, nosliw and 2 others like this.
  12. bluenosens

    bluenosens Well-Known Member

    Location:
    malagash centre
    I appreciate your two cents {American] :) so about 5 cents CDN, Eh? :) I do not disagree with what you're saying as I was simply making an observation comment. I originally owned the Technics sl1300. remember them? Loved it until a British belt drive bettered it. The newer Technics are simply a better tt than the sl1300 in every way. However I play in a difference playground as I still prefer my Roksan Xerxes that still does magic and "Compels" me to listen. Everyone finds their path to musical bliss. Cheers, and happy listening. And would I try a technics 1200 gr if it happened? Sure, I always admired technics.
     
  13. Helom

    Helom I'll take the monkey coffins

    Location:
    U.S.
    It's certainly true that not all ellipticals are created equal. I prefer to just avoid that lottery by going with a shibata or microcline.
     
    zombiemodernist likes this.
  14. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Actually, I must correct myself - the 103 is conical, not elliptical, but still no IGD. As to the more advanced stylus shapes, to me the sweet spot between fidelity and ease of use is hyperelliptical, so far. Perhaps I just haven't "graduated" to better shapes yet, knowing they're more demanding of futzing around with setup.
     
  15. 4011021

    4011021 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brazil
    I had so far one shibata (2M Black) and two microline/fine line (VM540ML and MP-500). VM540ML and MP-500 are easy to set.
     
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  16. Benzion

    Benzion "Cogito, ergo sum" Forum Resident

    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    Oh, I wasn't comparing relatively entry-level DD's with audiophile quality belt drives. I always prefer to compare apples to apples. Among the 3 DD tables discussed, to me personally, at least, the Technics is an obvious choice.
     
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  17. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    They aren't that hard to set up, for the most part. Another myth propagated by the hi-fi press and regurgitated by forums.
     
  18. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    IME people tend to lump things together by price or basic appearance. They don't bother to look at how something is made (by that I mean the engineering and parts, not just "it feels solid"), look carefully at specs, etc.
     
    zombiemodernist likes this.
  19. zombiemodernist

    zombiemodernist Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeastern USA
    In my experience those that are nude mounted with a finer radius will sound better. Of course, that correlation leads to the logical conclusion that an even more advanced and finer cut is betters still. All this is in keeping with knowledge and research gathered in the late 70s and early 80s!
     
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  20. Boltman92124

    Boltman92124 Fish tacos

    Location:
    San Diego
    Interesting. I find a lot of digital playback actually has less appealing high frequency SQ compared to vinyl. Vinyl has more top end "sparkle" and more air on top IMO. Even with the dirt cheap LP Gear CF3600le elliptical, I am continually amazed at the lovely high frequencies and lack of IGD that cartridge has.
     
    Big Blue likes this.
  21. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    A very big question but let's extend that to all lossless digital music formats.

    I often see people attempting to return to vinyl after many years away from it because they are wondering what the hype is. Let's face it, vinyl is extremely trendy now and anyone can get bitten by the hype bug when everyone and their brother is claiming vinyl is the be-all, end-all audiophile format.

    Often expectations need a reality check. Getting good to great sound out of vinyl is much more involved than people think.

    A lot of it starts with the records, and outside of some key releases, much of the new vinyl out there is straight up poorly cut and poorly pressed. Grab a dozen popular newly pressed records (whether reissues or new albums) from a local record shop and 70-80% of them will be pressed at a low-end plant and cut by Joe Schmo from a dubious source.
     
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  22. zombiemodernist

    zombiemodernist Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northeastern USA
    I would point out that tracking is not exactly the same thing as extension. I'm talking more about the handling of quick harsh HF signals (ie "esses") and tight inner bands, vs some form of roll-off or lack of HF extension. This is a physical problem unique to vinyl playback, not exhibited on digital format or analog tape.
     
  23. Boltman92124

    Boltman92124 Fish tacos

    Location:
    San Diego
    Very true. I only shop for new re-issues or releases at Acoustic Sounds now(and a little Music Direct for MoFi). They have the best labels for new LP's and you can read reviews on a lot of the albums before buying. Original pressings are a crap shoot but the good condition stuff blows their CD counterparts away much of the time IMO.
     
    Cyclone Ranger likes this.
  24. Boltman92124

    Boltman92124 Fish tacos

    Location:
    San Diego
    Understood. But I still find vinyl more pleasing in those upper registers. Redbook CD creates more listener fatigue IMO.
     
  25. patient_ot

    patient_ot Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    I tend to take things on a case by case basis. I always research before I buy and I rarely do pre-orders and the like. I have a lot of albums on both CD and vinyl and often it's a matter of being "different" than one clearly being better than the other. Something people also seem to forget is that many albums have been pressed on CD a truckload of times and often there are several different masterings. The version you can buy new on Amazon or stream on a streaming service isn't always the best or even close to the best digital version of that particular album.
     

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