[Poll] Entry-level Turntables: Is There Really Such a Thing as a Good sub-$500 TT?

Good as? $500-$1000 digital source?
Good for entry level-mid range amplification and speakers? Good for getting into the vinyl?
Interesting topic, just wish it was a bit more specific.

Regards

 

Since no one answered your question, I guess I'll take a stab. But first, a disclaimer: "The views expressed are solely those of Cyclone Ranger. They do not reflect the views of this station. Warning, long post follows"...

I don't think stuff like the U-Turn and other entry-level 'tables are bad, per se. And yes, they are way better than the Crosleys. And if someone I knew told me they only had a couple or three hundred to spend on a 'table, I'd probably tell 'em to look at a U-Turn or similar.

But that said, 'not bad' doesn't automatically equal good, either. At least IMO.

Why? Well, since I'm coming back to this hobby after being away for about 25 years or so (no joke), I'm gonna have to couch this in terms of 'old' 'tables, since I've heard them the most. And because they are 'what happened'.

My first TT 'back in the day' was an early-mid '80s Technics DD linear-tracking 'table. Probably the cheapest one of that type they made, or close. I remember getting it for a $149 'street price' (which works out to something like $375 in today's $$$, ubiquitous cheap Audio Technica cart included).

It was a decent TT. It looked cool. The push-button-controlled linear tracking arm was fun to play with. There were some cool tiny blinky lights too, for no apparent reason. And records sounded pretty good at first... bright, and seemingly pretty detailed. But over time, I noticed a few things, or at least I notice them now, in retrospect.

Namely, I got bored of most of the content on my records pretty quickly. I only wanted to listen to the 'best' tracks, the biggest hits. I didn't really musically 'understand' what was going on on the other tracks, or what the artist was trying to do. The musical genres I liked were few and narrow. My tastes weren't expanding. I just wasn't interested in anything beyond the best of what I already knew. It was like eating hot fudge sundaes all the time, and turning up your nose at absolutely everything else. It wasn't bad, per se, but something was missing.

Then, a couple of years later, I heard a Linn Sondek LP12 for the first time, at a high-end audio shop. I literally couldn't believe it at first... an entirely different experience. Ridiculously better. Ridiculously better even than CD, the alleged new 'god' of audio, as we were all being told 24-7 back in the Eighties. I wanted one.

So, I wound up buying a traded-in LP12 from that same shop. And I suddenly started liking a lot more tracks on my records. Not all of them, of course. But a lot more. I started understanding what real voices sounded like, real instruments. I could appreciate technique a lot more. And I started listening to other genres of music I'd never really been into before... classical, jazz, old blues, old country, experimental, whatever. It felt like I finally understood what the artists were trying to do, and could follow along. I didn't always like the end result, but the batting average was a lot higher than on my old 'table.

I felt like I was finally hearing and evaluating and enjoying the music on its own terms, whereas before, it had to be almost exactly like what I already liked, or it was 'craaaaaap'... . I went from being a close-minded listener to an open-minded one.

I don't think a 'table that was only slightly better than my old one would've opened up the doors for me nearly as well or as quickly as the LP12 did (though it could've just as easily been a Michell, or a Roksan, or an AR, or something else doing the door-opening, long as it was in that league, or close).

I also started listening to a lot of other equipment in the shops, including other turntables, and found that I had a certain 'baseline' as to how good the TT had to be to consistently musically involve me, at least at the level I wanted.

My lower cut-off was somewhere around a Systemdek IIX or Rega Planar 3 (and I didn't really like the '80s P3 all that much, though I understand the newest one is lots better). Anything below that was just 'okay' at best, if even that, and wouldn't really do what I needed it to do. That included every single mid-fi/mass-fi rack system 'table I ever heard. And also a Bang & Olufsen TT I bought as 'what I could afford at the time' almost a decade later, after I very foolishly sold my LP12 during a time when I needed funds.

Now, it's possible that musically, I'm lazy/spoiled/just-not-that-great-a-listener/whatever, and I need the equipment to really lay the music out for me. Whereas maybe someone with better ears, a musician's background, or just less picky tastes, could do great with stuff a couple of levels down from what I seem to need.

It's also possible that today's entry-level TTs like the U-Turns are significantly better than the cheap 'tables of yore. Could well be, I don't know, since I don't own one and have made little effort to hunt down and listen to one in-depth. But, it would have to be a lot better than the cheap old 'tables I grew up with for me to be happy with it. And considering that my 'back in the day' baseline was set at 'tables that are $1000 in today's money... well, that's a tall order to ask of an entry-level TT. And probably unfair.

So, that's my particular take on it. Not dissing on today's entry-level 'tables at all... I just know what *I* need, and it doesn't seem to be them (though I'd guess that a U-Turn with a decent cart would beat my old el cheapo Technics linear-tracker, and the B&O too).

As always, your mileage may vary, and it would quite boring if it didn't.
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Check out post #6.
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No such thing, start out with a good table and you'll never look back.

 

Apologies. Missed it.

Yes.I think there are plenty of choices in this segment.

Regards

 

I tend to agree, reasonable expectations plus a cart upgrade are smart when dealing with entry-level TTs. It's a good point.

It also makes me wonder how good something like a U-Turn would sound with its acrylic platter upgrade plus say a Nagaoka mp-110 or an Ortofon Blue on it.
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What?! What!? Come at me, bro !!! Lolz.

 

Hey, I'm not part of the Technics 1200 torch-and-pitchfork mob. I just know it exists.

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I have the Pro-Ject DC SE, love it. upgraded to ortofon blue 2M after a year of use, just for the hell of it, love it. But I probably don't know what I'm missing since it's my first "real" TT. Do TTs ever really "wear out" or is it more a case of upgrade-itis?

 

Option 2 to me.

 

Probably quite fine if low wow and flutter aren't important to you. MP-11o might not be the best match for the light U-Turn arm, not sure.

For awhile there was talk that U-Turn might do a more advanced turntable at some point. I think with a nicer, more robust arm, lower w/f, and better motor isolation they'd have a more serious contender. Problem is with their overhead and cost of production the price they'd need to charge might not be competitive anymore versus what else is on the market.

I think the company is looking to go in a different direction rather than just focus on turntables mainly. They recently sent out a market research survey that focused on powered speakers and integrated amps. I wouldn't be surprised if the former makes it to market as a U-Turn branded product. Not sure how they would make them to a price point in the U.S. though. We'll see.

 

I'd put the good/not good price line for an entry level at $275

 

Given that a lot of the competition in the $700-1000 audiophile TT market is British (hi Rega), and that such 'tables are almost always priced quite a lot higher in North America than they are in the UK... I like U-Turn's chances of competing in that market.

Consider also that their current price point with the Orbit TT is allegedly one where 'US-made just can't compete' against cheap Asian-made wares (not to mention Eastern-European-made), yet U-Turn has, and thrived... it seems like they've already cleared the hardest hurdle.
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Go for a good table, forget cheap.

 

U-Turn succeeded, particularly early on, because they could deliver a turntable that wouldn't damage your records for $180. The nearest competition was the AT LP120 (Chinese made) at $250. Since then other competitors have come on the market, and people kind of figured out that $180 only got you a bare bones TT that didn't even have a cue lever. I'd love to know what the average U-Turn purchase is...probably closer to $250 I'd imagine.

U-Turn doesn't ship outside of North America. If they did, their goods would be subject to customs fees and import taxes. Pro-Ject tables like the Essential and Elemental are everywhere in Europe AFAIK, and it would probably be tough to compete with those in the UK or European markets, especially once fees and taxes increase the price.

 

That's kinda the point... U-Turn might not be able to compete in Europe, due to taxes and what not, but they can and do compete well in North America.

So, given that, why not move upmarket in North America, and offer TTs at more price points? We are a very sizable market, after all. A TT does not have to be sold worldwide in order to be profitable.

 

The WC is fab for vintage Japanese made DD TTs. I recently scored a Sony PS-X6 for under $300. I spent more on the new cart!

 

The US is the largest consumer market in the world, larger than the entire EU by the way, and not including Canada and Mexico. I would love to see U-Turn market a "giant killer" turntable here and am a little disappointed to see that they are looking to expand beyond turntables before putting out a higher-line version of the Orbit.

 

As far as I can tell, they do. However, they have more competition even in the U.S. vs. when they started. Yeah, all their competitors are imports, but their target market doesn't really care where things are made.

Well, they have the "fancy" wood plinth, but I don't see them doing much more than that. Too crowded a market already with too much competition for too little a slice of the pie. Even a custom Orbit moves into Pro-Ject and Rega price territory as it is. Hence why they are looking at non-turntable products to offer.

It will be interesting to see what direction the company moves in.

 

Ah, but the vinyl market is expanding, and U-Turn's already proven that there's room for a cool newcomer. You in-effect 'make room' in the market by having the right product/right approach, as they already have at their current level.

And I think Rega is ripe for the plucking in the US, at least at the P1 and P2 level. They charge 30-40% more for their 'tables in the US than they do in the UK. That leaves considerable leeway for a maker like U-Turn to either

1) Make a 'table at the same price point, but with better sonics and quality, or

2) Make a 'table with comparable sonics/quality, but at a considerably cheaper price point.

The P3 is somewhat insulated from this due to it's huge 'rep' and history among audiophiles (plus it's just darn good even at US prices), but even it may become vulnerable someday, should U-Turn decide to make a serious go.

Far as U-Turn looking at products outside of TTs, that makes sense, and not in a "we don't think we can compete in higher price point turntables" way. It's a good hedge against the possibility that the Vinyl Resurgence™ may be, at least partially, a fad. If TT sales cool considerably, then all TT-makers are in for rough sailing, but most especially the TT-makers who only make TTs, i.e. who aren't diversified.

Look at how Linn now has products in most every category, even digital, even though the LP12 is their bread-and-butter. Ditto Rega.

But being in all those other categories hasn't prevented Rega from competing in a wide variety of different turntable price points, or continuing to update their TT product line. Just as it wouldn't necessarily prevent U-Turn from entering some new TT price points.

The real thing holding them back on that front? They don't have the 'rep' yet to facilitate audiophiles/well-heeled customers buying expensive 'tables from them. So they're going to have to develop that, one step/price-point at a time.

They'd probably start with a P1 competitor, I'd think, then move to the P2-level. More power to 'em if and when they do so. With enough success, might even make Rega cut their US pricing a bit.
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You might be right on the lower end, won't be easy at the Planar 2 level though. The new P3 might be a problem though, it performs pretty much at the outgoing RP6 level. That is a serious table for less than a 1000 bucks. Its good enough it makes me wonder how close the new P6 is going to be to the RP8. Gandy and his guys have really learned a lot from that 40k test bed table the last few years.

 

My system is extremely mid-fi. I think the question is kind of silly.

Any turntable that can produce a sound that's reasonably close to accurate to the source material (all else being equal, i.e. pressing quality, etc.) and won't cause damage to the records played on it qualifies IMO.

I think the Fluance RT-80 and U-Turn Orbit basic both qualify as "good entry level turntables" at around $200. Plenty of great options in the sub-$500 range. It's great we should be loving all the good entry level options there are out there.

 

Umm, something-something Technics 1200.

 

The first TT I bought myself was the RP1, and that one was only good for playing the first half of the album on relatively forgiving pressings. It's only when I stepped to a considerably more expensive TT and cartridge combination that things started to fall in place. If you can live with IGD, some pitch instability and tracking issues, then I'd say you can definitely get something good for less than 500.