Poll: What kind of DAC do you have/want?

Does HQPlayer have a filter that mimics the filter used by dCS? HQPlayer has a filter that mimics the million tap filter used by Chord. Is there something similar to mimic what dCS does? A dCS style filter in HQPlayer will be as close as I'll ever get to owning a dCS DAC.

 

While I don't know the answer to your question, it got me intrigued. Will check out HQPlayer.

 

I’ve had a Topping E30 and a D50 and for what ever reason never particularly cared to listen to digital through either of these. I personally found it to lacking when compared to my analog setup, which is admittedly where my focus has been. I’ve always been format agnostic, and I knew that with the right dac I would surely enjoy digital as much as my record collection, problem was I knew I would need to spend some money to get a dac capable of matching my analog chain. A couple of months ago a buddy insisted I try a Wadia 321 that he wasn’t using anymore (poor guy has an all Ayon rack now). This Wadia has really made me embrace digital, I find myself really engaged in the music with this dac, I don’t find it’s sound too neutral or too colored, I just find that it reproduces music the way I like.

 

I heard a full Vivaldi stack once, playing a DSD file. It was a combo of speakers, room, and that DAC but that setup literally drew a physical outline of the performance. It was astonishingly real. I'm not even sure I could say how it "sounded" because I saw it, more than I heard it.

So far, I'm sad to say, I haven't found THAT filter yet in HQP

 

Never bother with the filters in my Dac/streamer. Very satisfied with the with the SQ at the default setting. Sounds extremely transparent and naturally “right” yet conveys a “musicality” that promotes involvement.

 

I see.. do you use the Cd player as a transport combined with the Topping or is the CD player used as a stand alone only and do you use the topping for streaming purposes only ?

 

Yes. I use the internal Rotel DAC.
The Topping is for streaming only.

 

The idea of totally neutral probably doesn't really exist but I want as close to neutral as possible. However, given the statement I've just made I'll obviously have to compromise. I own the Burson Playmate 2 which has the ESS Sabre 9038 DAC and I feel that it gives a slightly V shaped sound but it's not enough to put me off. What will also affect the coloration is the Opamps inside the PM2. Currently I have the stock opamps (NE5532/5534) and they sound really good. I wonder how the V6 Vivids would colour the sound if I installed them.

 

Being new to dacs and all things streaming, I recently purchased a little device Auris Blume HD receiver which streams via bluetooth and it sounds fantastic. It's not much to look at but for price it seems like it has some pretty high quality parts

BluMe HD Bluetooth Music Receiver with Audiophile DAC - Auris, Inc.

 

I use a PS Audio DirectStream Dac which was recently modified with an upgraded pair of Edcor output signal transformers specifically recommended by the DAC's designer. I've owned it for almost 2 years. For redbook the dac is fed via I2S from the Jay's Audio CD transport seen above it. For high rez stereo DVD-A or SACD, I use a souped-up Oppo UDP203 (hiding at bottom-left) with an Oppomod's I2S output card to feed 24/96 PCM and native DSD signals to the DirectStream. For either of these sources the DS Dac is a fantastic sounding unit.

 

The HQ Player filters don't exactly mimic the Chord filters. I don't believe there was an effort to make a filter that sounds like a Chord filter. But there are 43 oversampling reconstruction filters in HQ Player and some of them are sinc filters with 1 million and 16 million taps, which I gather is something like the type of reconstruction filter Chord uses. I know that dCS offers a bunch of filter options, is there something unusual about the filters?

 

The DAC in the main system adds a bit of richness and fullness the sound. Is it more neutral or more like live music ?

 

No idea really. I plug it in, does it sound good to me? Yes. Keep it.

Not difficult.

 

Emotiva DC-1
I'm good

 

Trying to describe what you hear is a difficult but that sounds like 'smearing' to me, which comes from some distortion in the chain. I've found that this can come from your amp as well, as this is one aspect, which isolation can remedy.

So I think noise in this context refers to distortion in the DAC, as everything in your system will add some distortion, neutral is a relative concept, when it comes to Hi-Fi.

 

Very possibly it is. Only reason I'm not sure is that it's, to me, close to the effect I hear when I switch from plugging a PC directly into a DAC via USB, versus doing it from a streamer/renderer/NAA. And since I know PCs are noisy as heck, I've just always assumed it was that "noise" that's not really noise like I typically think of it, but rather an effect on low level detail, clarity, and transparency. That whole "lifting the veil" analogy applies in this scenario.

But to your point, they could be unrelated phenomena, or they both just may be distortion artifacts. Other data point is that the Zen Stream measures very low for noise, A/C ripple, and jitter. Not honestly sure how it measures for distortion, or how that may be an impact without "measuring" at an impactful level.

No idea if what I'm saying even makes sense at this point, lol. But I appreciate the follow-up!

 

Whenever I read engineering-design oriented descriptions of reconstruction filters in DACs, the entire focus seems to be on accuracy, avoiding unwanted artifacts and mirroring, and the like — you know, transparency and high fidelity to the source material’s audio content and character according to the requirements of undistorted analog output.

But a lot of the conceptual framing of ears-first audiophile DAC discourse tends to treat DACs as spicy artisanal tools that can be voiced, EQ’d, shaped to enhance elements of sonic character, made to alter coloration like tone controls, and generally encouraged to additively intervene and beautify the source characteristics in various ways (including via filter-and chip-tuning) according to taste, with good results helpfully predicted by a high price and fancy brand.

So my head says “neutral,” by my confused audio heart says “WTF, audiophiles?!?!?”

 

I don't really know but I'd class 'noise' as distortion also I've I found if I don't use the Rega drive from PC via usb to my DAC, it's sounds much worse

 

Purely anecdotal but having heard firsthand what a very specifically designed analog output stage can do to an otherwise-pedestrian yet very "neutral" AKM chip in the DM Convert-2, I'm fully onboard with the idea that a DAC's "sound" is characterized by:

Analog output stage
Power supply
Chip implementation/DAC architecture
filtering and noise shaping
Measurements

And I put them in that order. Something like 40/30/20/9.99/.01 to all add up to 100% of its sonic profile.

DACs to me are like phono cartridges, and you aren't picking your favorite phono cart on paper, sadly.

 

I was totally on board with all of this until I got to “DACs to me are like phono cartridges.”

 

How are they not? An AT 750ML and an AT540ML are different, but quite similar. There's some compatibility at play with arms, and there are subtle differences due to the type of body they have. Same for Nagaoka MP400 vs MP500.

Doesn't have to be some huge contrast between devices to make them different.

Oh and either way - it's no biggie if we don't agree on this. It's a bit of a wild suggestion Ok, maybe not "wild," but certainly half-baked!

 

I agree. I think most people focus too much on the “D” too much, talking chipsets and such (and really, 99% of us are just parrots when it comes to discussing chips). The “A” part is what we are really hearing, and the power supply is a huge part of this equation. It’s not unlike any other component in that regard.

This is an interesting interview with Ed Meitner from EMM Labs/Meitner Audio. In the interview he discusses chips and why he has his own made to his spec, and why the analog part of the equation is so important. His stuff is very pricey, but he is a genius, and one of the inventors of single bit DSD/SACD technology. It’s worth a listen.

 

Colouration or distortion can sometimes create an enhanced impression of laying and image depth.Something that maybe isn't on the actual recording .Tube amps for example are good in doing just that

 

The Sinc-M and Sinc-L filters in HQPlayer are close enough to what Chord is doing in the M Scaler that you can use HQPlayer and those filters as a poor man's M Scaler. Kinda. Close enough, but not the same.

I don't even know what type of filter dCS uses and what they're doing with their filters and their upscaler. No idea how to get HQPlayer to be a poor man's dCS, or if that is even possible.

GoldenSound has a YouTube video review of the Chord DAVE with M Scaler. Jump to the 22:56 mark to get a brief comparison of HQPlayer to M Scaler.

 

I've got a PS Audio Directstream in my main system and love it. I think the question is a bit flawed. I'm not looking for a DAC to color my system. The system is colored with the recording, speaker, and amp/preamp more than it is with a DAC. I just want digital to sound amazing given a good recording and that has been achieved. I've got a bluesound node 2i and benchmark DAC1 in a couple secondary systems.