Post your Matrix Codes for your RL copy of Led Zeppelin II

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by CardinalFang, Jun 30, 2006.

  1. CardinalFang

    CardinalFang New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    ....
    Do you have an RL copy of LZII? Post the matrix codes here. If you have a copy that only has one side with RL, post matrix codes for both sides, just in case. Add additional details, like label style, promo info, etc. Also, list the width of the deadwax for side 2.

    I'll post mine when I get home from work this evening. In the meantime, break our your copies and transribe those codes! :)
     
  2. JorgeGvb

    JorgeGvb Senior Member

    Location:
    Virginia Beach
    Good idea Keith!

    I currently have 3 RL pressings of LZ II. They also have a lot of other codes in the deadwax too.

    #1

    Side 1: ST-A-691671-MO TC RL LW A13933 W AT
    Side 2: ST-A-691672-MO CC RL LW A13933 W AT (wide deadwax)

    * Note the LW is actually sideways.

    #2

    Side 1: ST-A-691671 - A LW P W AT RL
    Side 2: ST-A-691672 - A LW P AT RL SS W (narrow deadwax)

    * Note the LW P is actually sideways. The P is under the LW.

    #3

    Side 1: ST-A-691671 - A LW P W AT RL
    Side 2: ST-A-691672 - A LW AT RL SS W (narrow deadwax)

    * Note the LW P is actually sideways. There is no P on side 2 of this pressing.
     
  3. Solaris

    Solaris a bullet in flight

    Location:
    New Orleans, LA
    I could only hope!

    *green with envy* :)

    Jason
     
  4. sungshinla

    sungshinla Vinyl and Forum Addict


    In order to lessen the confusion created by the use of certain words, please let's start using the words like "narrower", "regular" and "not-narrower" to differentiate the two RL Side Two's. There is a RL pressing with just Side One having the RL initials, which, on Side Two, has a MUCH wider dead wax area than the "not-narrower" or "regular" RL.

    Just a suggestion.
     
  5. MikeyH

    MikeyH Stamper King

    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    .. and the dead wax information on these is??

    I will post mine when I lay hands on it; I know I have at least one copy with both sides cut at Sterling, but one is RL and one is LH.

    From the information so far, we have a cut done by RL for Monarch, and one for (?) some other pressing plant, both sets plated by Long Wear. I'd rather have the numbers sorted out, before going into the niceties of which is the 'louder' or 'better'. I think that was the intention of the thread..

    OK: found one.. Green/orange label, 1841 Braodway address.

    Side 1 ST-A-691671-1A RL ss T
    Side 2 ST-A-691672-D ss LH T

    This is clearly a Columbia pressing. I believe the T signfies the Terre Haute plant.
     
    The Beave likes this.
  6. Randy W

    Randy W Original Member

    About 6 months ago I bought a WLP of LZ II in VG++ condition for $9!!

    Mine has RL in deadwax and narrow side 2 with:

    ST - A - 691671 - MO - CC and 13933 (1) w and AT on Side One

    ST - A - 691672 - MO - CC and 13933 X w and AT on Side Two.
     
  7. CardinalFang

    CardinalFang New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    ....
    I have two copies. Both on orange & green Atlantic labels, 1841 Broadway, etc.

    -------

    Side 1
    ST-A-691671-1A (RL written above it)
    what looks like a faint stamped B and 14 written, stamped O written T, upside-down written 2

    Side 2
    ST-A-691672-D SS LH
    what looks like a faint stamped B and 15 written, stamped O written T, written 1
    * "not narrower" deadwax (did I use the correct term, Sung?)

    --------

    Side 1
    ST - A - 691671 - A (LW written on it's side) W AT RL

    Side 2
    ST - A - 691672 - A (LW and P written on their side) AT RL SS
    * Narrower deadwax
    ** Note: I spaced out the codes in this one, because the writing does have wider spacing between codes.
     
  8. CardinalFang

    CardinalFang New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    ....
    It seems as though we have 4 distinct pressings so far...
     
  9. namahealani

    namahealani Forum Resident

    Mine is Green/orange label, 1841 Broadway address

    Side 1
    ST - A - 691671 - A (LW written on it's side with a P underneath) W AT RL

    Side 2 w/narrow deadwax
    ST - A - 691672 - A (LW written on it's side with a P underneath) AT RL SS

    CardinalFang, is there a P under the LW on side 1 of your 2nd listed disc?
     
  10. CardinalFang

    CardinalFang New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    ....
    I'm editing this because I screwed up when I originally answered your question. No, there is no P on Side 1 of my 2nd LP.
     
  11. dogpile

    dogpile Generation X record spinner.

    Location:
    YYZ - Canada
    Here is my Broadway copy read counter-clockwise.....

    Side One (regular dead wax)
    ST - A - 691671 - MO - BB LW (sideways) 13933 AT RL SS W

    Side Two (narrower dead wax)
    ST - A - 691672 - MO - CC LW (sideways) RL SS 13933 - X W AT

    Did the original pressing come with a special inner sleeve or a plain white one??
     
  12. AaronW

    AaronW Senior Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Thanks to Sung :righton: mine are:

    Side 1: ST-A-691671-MO-CC RL SS LW A13933 (1) W AT

    Side 2: ST-A-691672-MO-CC LW RL SS A13933-X W (1) AT
    (narrower than side 1 but still wide deadwax)
     
  13. pope_ttb_xxx

    pope_ttb_xxx New Member

    Side 1
    ST-A-691671-1A ("RL" "SS" written above it)
    what looks like a faint stamped "B" and written "O", stamped "O" written "T"

    Side 2
    ST-A-691672-D ("SS LH" written on opposite side of deadwax), stamped "O", written "T" and written '1'. Under the "SS LH" there's a faint, stamped upsidedown "V" and written "1C"

    The deadwax width looks normal on both sides.

    The matrix numbers on the label (at 6 o'clock) is ST-A-691671CTH and ST-A-691671CTH. I think the "CTH" means Columbia Terre Haute. MikeyH, do your label matrixes end in "CTH"?
     
  14. W.B.

    W.B. The Collector's Collector

    Location:
    New York, NY, USA
    Oh it does, it does. If it were marked "CP," then it would indicate Columbia Pitman.
     
  15. bopdd

    bopdd Senior Member

    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Why don't we post the catalogue numbers as well? Wouldn't that help those of us trying to track them down?
     
  16. MikeyH

    MikeyH Stamper King

    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    No, no CTH. They do have a small T, separate from the matrix number. I only see this on Columbia pressings. Maybe W.B. knows if this is the same as a CTH.

    Sounds like we have a reasonably complete range of Atlantic's pressing plants working hard to make (what we think is) the first US edition of LZII, using a variety of lacquers from Sterling Sound cut by at least Bob and Lee Hulko. All we need to complete the set are some side ONE LH cuts... or maybe the side 2 was the 'problem' side (does anyone have any documentary evidence as to the unsuitability of this cut, and why it was effectively withdrawn and replaced with the -A GP mastering?) and so Bob had another go (the wide dead wax, not so loud) and Lee tried too...

    Just speculating here.
     
  17. MikeyH

    MikeyH Stamper King

    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    Everything we're talking about here is Atlantic SD 8236.
     
  18. rpd

    rpd Senior Member

    Location:
    Nashville
    Found a II RL today...but it is VG at best...even the 16.5 couldn't make it shine...although it is not bad...
     
  19. CardinalFang

    CardinalFang New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    ....
    Cool! My full-RL copy is not even VG. It's been through hell, but I love it anyway. :D

    Post those matrix codes!
     
  20. JorgeGvb

    JorgeGvb Senior Member

    Location:
    Virginia Beach
    Congrats Bob! This is pretty common actually. Most copies of LZ II are pretty well played after 30+ years.
     
  21. CardinalFang

    CardinalFang New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    ....
    Jorge,

    Of the above 3 matrix codes that you posted, which one is the WLP?
     
  22. JorgeGvb

    JorgeGvb Senior Member

    Location:
    Virginia Beach

    None of mine are WLP's. That was Geoman who had the WLP pressing.
     
  23. CardinalFang

    CardinalFang New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    ....
    Ah, I thought you had one too. Nevermind. :whistle:
     
  24. sungshinla

    sungshinla Vinyl and Forum Addict

    Hi, Keith. Sorry for the delay, but just the thought of listing the little info that I have made me procrastinate!

    What I will do here is list the different pressings and stampers that I have (although I no longer have many many copies of this record any longer) of the US originals, UK originals, German pressings and Japanese pressings. I believe the people who are interested only in the RL pressings may only be interested in the US section and the GERMAN section below. But if you are interested in other alternatives, you may find the UK and Japanese sections below helpful as well.

    US: The original pressing, as it is understood by the general public, has the cat. no. of SD 8236, as most people here already know. Also, as most people here already know, the earliest runs of this original pressing was cut by Robert Ludwig, as indicated by his initials "RL" etched on the dead wax (the runoff groove, after the music is over and before the label starts) of Side One, and sometimes BOTH Side One AND Side Two. For the US pressings, I basically have seen four large groups of versions. For variations of these four versions based on where they were pressed, I think MikeH's listing of the different pressing plants and their "codes" (as indicated at the bottom of the label with initials of the plant finishing up the ST-A-691671-__ or ST-!-691672-__) posted on another thread is very helpful (MikeH, would you please copy and paste that listing on this thread for others' benefit and convenience?). The four GENERALLY different versions that I have seen are:

    1. On BOTH sides the relevant matrix info is: ST-A-691671 - 1A (or on Side Two ST-A-691671 - 1A) with a SKINNY "RL" etched next to a very SMALL "ss" (for Sterling Sound). On my favorite copy of this record, the ST-A-691671- or ...72- number at the bottom of the label ends with CTH, indicating that my copy was pressed at Columbia. Please note that the ST-A-691671 - 1A on the dead wax is crunched together without unnecessary spaces in between. On these, the dead wax on Side Two is slightly narrower than that on Side One, BUT is NOT as narrow as the other version described below.

    2. On Side One the relevant matrix info is identical to the one described immediately above, but on Side Two, it is: ST-A-691672 - D (or some other letter but NOT 1A). That matrix info, again, is crunched together without unnecessary spaces in between. On these, the SKINNY "RL" plus a small "ss" appear on Side One but on Side Two a larger "SS" appears next to "LH", indicating that Side Two was not mastered by Robert Ludwig. On these, the dead wax on Side Two is similar to the version that I described immediately above. From this info, I concluded that this is a later run than the one immediately above. Side Two does not sound as magical as the one immediately above, but still sounds markedly better than the non-RL versions (except that I have not heard the "GP" version).

    3. On both sides of the record, the following appears: ST- A - 691671 - A (or on Side Two ST- A - 691672 - A). This thread will not let me put in extra spaces between numbers and letters but on these, there are empty spaces between ST- and A, between A - and 691671 (or ...72) and between that number and - A, suggesting that it contemplated other numbers or letters to be filled in later (perhaps to indicate the different stampers, etc.) On Side One, there is a NON-skinny "RL" (similar to those which are on later RL records) and NO "SS". On Side Two, there is a SKINNY "RL" next to a very small "ss". Now, there may be other version of this which may have a SKINNY "RL" plus a small "ss" on BOTH sides, but I cannot confirm this, as I no longer have three other copies of RL Led Zep II. On these, Side Two has a very, very narrow dead wax area, even narrower than the two versions described above. This is what people here call the "narrow Side Two" version but I would like to call it the "narrower Side Two" version. My reason for this is the next version described below. WITHOUT confirmation that there is a double-sided SKINNY "RL" with a very small "ss" of this version, I am of the belief that this version is the SECOND run of this LP, right after the version described in Paragraph 1 above.

    4. On Side One, the relevant matrix info is identical to the version described immediately above, with the NON-skinny "RL" and NO "SS". On Side Two, there is no mastering credit and the matrix info is: ST-A-691672-M (or some other letter). The dead wax area on Side Two is LARGE (or "wide"), larger or wider than each of the songs on Side Two. I am of the opinion that this RL-on-one-side-only is the LAST of the RL runs, as Side Two was not even cut at Sterling Sound.

    All US RL pressings that I have seen do NOT have the "Gold Record Award" marking on the cover and they came in the typical late 60's Atlantic paper inner sleeves with pictures of other Atlantic releases.

    Also, there may yet be at least another version of the US RL pressings with the matrix info: ST-A-691672 (without anything more). As I have parted with some of my RL pressings PRIOR to comparing all the different matrix info, I cannot personally confirm this, or what kind of "RL" or "SS" is etched on the dead wax.


    GERMAN: This leads me to the GERMAN pressings. Some of you may not know this (actually most people that I have discussed Led Zep II over the years did not seem to know this), but there are at least two different German pressings with "RL" etched on the dead wax of Side One. The original pressing (some people call this the "export" pressing from the U.S., but I am of the opinion that this was actually pressed in Germany) has the laminated, gatefold cover with SD 8236 cat. no. showing at the bottom left corner of the front of the cover WITHOUT any German cat. no. These are basically the same as the US, RL-on-one-side-only version described immediately above. Side Two has a large/wide dead wax area without any US mastering engineers initials. These also have labels that are almost identical to the US originals with 1841 Broadway address at the bottom. From this, I am of the opinion that these were pressed with the same metal parts or stamper as the US version described immediately above. This one goes for big bucks in Europe, since it is the original German pressing. I just saw one for more than $150 on eBay.

    There is a later RL-on-one-side-only GERMAN pressing, which looks basically identical to the original RL German pressing described immediately above, but which differs in the label and the cat. no. on the front of the cover. Everything is basically the same, except that the label has a "ATL 40 037" at the bottom of the label and the front bottom left corner of the laminated, G/F cover (right above the SD 8236 cat. no.). Also, the bottom of the label looks similar to a TRACK or POLYDOR label of the early 70's with "33" inside a triangle. These were made in or around 1972, as indicated by the publishing credit inside the G/F cover. I have seen this one go for anywhere from $5 to $40, depending on how the seller describes it. The seller on the $40 one obviously mentioned that it had the "RL" initials on Side One. I see these on eBay at least once every two weeks or so, and I highly recommend these, as these usually go for less than $10 (unless you folks decide to bid against each other) and usually are in a clean and QUIET condition, without skips, stickings or jumps (which is not the case for the US RL's most of the time).

    There are, of course, NON-RL German pressings, one of which I also have and which I believe is the SECOND pressing. From my visual inspection of the vinyl, it is very similar to the UK plum/red label originals. From my A/B listening sessions, I am of the opinion that this is almost as nice sounding as the UK original.


    UK: I only have two copies of the UK original plum/red labels (looks a bit similar to the early 60's US mono Atlantic labels). These came in laminated, G/F covers. The earlier of these two has the miscredits, etc. There is another thread on which additional information was posted. The earliest UK originals sound pretty good, and for me, it was my best sounding version before I discovered the RL-mastered versions. As these usually go for big bucks, especially the earliest stampers with the miscredits, etc., I do not think the folks here would be interested in this.


    JAPAN: There are at least SEVEN different Japanese pressings that I am aware of, and I have five of those.

    The ORIGINAL pressing (cat. no. MT-1091) was done by Nippon Grammophon and has a light-green and blue label with a black fan, almost identical to the 60's US stereo Atlantic labels. These sound excellent, similar to the UK original, except it is usually on quieter vinyl. These are, however, VERY expensive, as I have seen a clean copy (with an obi) go for $300 or more.

    The SECOND pressing was done by Warner-Pioneer with a cat. no. P-8042A. These have the green/red label, almost identical to the 70's US Atlantic labels, and they sound different from the Japanese original pressing by Nippon Grammophon. These still sound very good (about as good as the Mo-Fi's, IMHO) and go for anywhere from $20 to $40.

    The THIRD Japanese pressing was done by Warner-Pioneer with a cat. no. P-10101-A. Many mistakenly call this the original Japanese pressing. This is basically a straight reissue of the second pressing described immediately above, as indicated by the same dead wax info (other than the stamper number, etc. is higher). These sound very good but ever so slightly less so than the second pressing (but go for about the same price).

    The FOURTH Japanese pressing was again done by Warner-Pioneer with a cat. no. P-6517A. This is basically another reissue of the second Japanese pressing and has the same matrix info on the dead wax, etc.

    There were also two other Japanese releases with the cat. no. beginning with AMJY and FCPA (or something like that), both of which were supposed to be "audiophile" releases, but I do not have these to give any information on them. I have heard from others, however, that they do not sound nearly as good as the RL pressings. The FCPA was apparently a joint venture between Warner-Pioneer and Sony.

    I also have a very late Japanese "Forever Young" series pressing with the cat. no. 16P1-2024 by Warner-Pioneer (I actually have two copies of this). This actually sounds different from the other Warner-Pioneers that I have, and sounds very good.

    All Japanese pressings are on extremely quiet vinyl, as most of you know.


    I hope this information is helpful to some of the Forum members. :)
     
  25. Raunchnroll

    Raunchnroll Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Side 1) ST - A - 691671 - B - LW (sideways) - AT - RL/SS - W

    Side 2) ST - A - 691672 - C - LW (sideways) - RL/SS - W - AT

    The #'s at the 6 o'clock pos. on the label sides are (ST-A-691671PR) & (ST-A-691672PR)
     

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