Power Cables... Do they really matter?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by PinkIsTheSky, Oct 7, 2019.

  1. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney


    You probably weren't serious, but while I've said jokingly, I no longer dismiss anything unless I have tried it extensively first. Fuses for me are in the too hard to try basket but I will sometime.
     
    jfeldt likes this.
  2. MGW

    MGW Less travelling, more listening

    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    The fuse is in the UK mains plug not the cable itself!
    England is only part of the UK. A bit like Texas is only part of the USA.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2022
    jonwoody and Ilusndweller like this.
  3. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict Look what I found

    Location:
    AZ
    I've tried a new fuse a couple of times after the one present blew, I have to come clean the new fuse sounded much better than the blown one.

    Thus, so far I've verified a new fuse can be an improvement.
     
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  4. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
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  5. TheVinylAddict

    TheVinylAddict Look what I found

    Location:
    AZ
    Well, you did say you had to try everything first in order to judge... :)

    Man, that could get expensive and a time sink.... finite resources for me (especially $$, but also time) means I try to buy things that make a difference, and on that front don't have a problem trusting what 95% of experienced audio nuts are telling me in some cases (of course just a random number, but take fuses, I feel that's the ratio on whether it's a fruitful endeavor for sound quality improvement endeavors - an overwhelming number aren't supportive).

    So I don't feel a need to fuse roll, I'd rather spend my time and money on something that has more experiential agreement on whether it's worth it. If so many trusted resources *were* telling me it's worth it, it might be on the radar. In this hobby, I find it more agreeable to minimize radar noise, make choices, and not feel like I have to try *everything* to have an opinion whether it's worth it. There's enough cumulative / collection experience on forums like this that it's easy to pick off the things at extreme ends of the spectrum (like rolling $600 fuses).
     
    wgriel likes this.
  6. mando_dan

    mando_dan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Beverly, MA
    Correct.
     
  7. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    Well, I think that in the case of the record optimizer I might manage to resist the urge to try it.:D

    I get enough benefit from these tweaks to please me but I understand, what is worth it for some people might not be for others. At the moment I am in my sweet spot, I can get things that will be better but now every improvement tend to cost more than what my wallet can take.
     
  8. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    My opinion

    Consum
    I'd say from a consumer point of view, they would like to buy 100 items at $£20 each.

    From a company point of view, they would like to sell 10 items at £100 each.

    And if they sold 10 more at £100 each, that's £1,000.00 If they sold 10 more at £20 each, that's £200.00

    Then you want to get into reputation - high end company with quality products or low end company with throw away products. Then keep in mind that the high end or low end reputation will spread to the rest of their products.
     
    jfeldt likes this.
  9. MGW

    MGW Less travelling, more listening

    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    I refer the Honourable Gentleman to my earlier answer!
    Added to which the original question was which the company would prefer not the consumer.
    And you maybe need to do the profit calculations which was what the discussion was about :wave::righton:
     
    Gary likes this.
  10. Just Walking

    Just Walking Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    The countries which only use the Type G mains plug (the one we use in the UK with a fuse in the plug) are:

    Bahrain
    Brunei
    Cyprus
    Falkland Islands
    Gambia
    Grenada
    Ireland
    Kenya
    Malawi
    Malta
    St Lucia
    Saudi Arabia
    Sechelles
    Uganda
    UK

    And although it isn't listed, Kuwait uses type G. I've been there on business and was surprised I could just plug my UK stuff in without adaptors.

    There are many more that support Type G and other standards.

    But there are far more mains plugs that do not have a fuse. Apart from the US system, Europe has a mains plug that doesn't have a fuse either (the Schuko plug).
     
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  11. Ilusndweller

    Ilusndweller S.H.M.F.=>Reely kewl.

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    Some agree with this viewpoint :agree:, others not so much :unhunh:.

    Either way (since Ive got this pic in Imgur), here is an example.
    Forte Model 3 - a great sounding amp with 4 fuses and "el cheapo" push on connectors to the fuse holders. Do higher end amps/pieces of gear still use these "el cheapo" push on connectors? (I forget their name).

    Are the supposed benefits (I think it comes down to personal preference/system synergy for those who can differentiate cables) of running single crystal wire (speaker, interconnnect, power cable, digicable) negated by the "el cheapo stamped metal of el cheapo press on connectors" (something is only as good as its "weakest link" theory), or does the "cumulative/everything matters theory" apply?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2022
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  12. fish

    fish Senior Member

    Location:
    NYS, USA
    You need to change those fuses man.
    And 4 of them! That sucks.
    I assume 4 SR oranges at $720 is out of the questions :-D
    Damn, 4 Supreme's would be an improvement for about $200 though.
    AND they're directional too so theres that - sucks more :doh:
     
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  13. Ilusndweller

    Ilusndweller S.H.M.F.=>Reely kewl.

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    I like talking theory, but in reality I enjoy music 99.8% as much if Im listening to it through a $7 thrift find, or "probably one of the best and best-sounding1980s integrated amplifiers". If I had to pick my favorite sounding amp, this (or the A-710 which sounds identical to me, just less powerful) would probably be it. Click the white "user" button for what I think is most likely behind its great sound. I used to (wrongly) think vibration control/anti-resonance designs were not so important. Not anymore. And yeah, the Kyocera does sound noticeably (noticeably, noticeably) better than the Aiwa, but I still enjoy tunes 99.8% as much through the Aiwa(or whatever). I like swapping gear and have no problem running BPC for shiggles/fun, especially with 83 dB efficient/750W speakers. :edthumbs:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2022
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  14. MGW

    MGW Less travelling, more listening

    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    In addition, Bangladesh, Belize, Botswana, Cameroon, Channel Islands, China (certainly not everywhere, but I have come across it in some parts), Cyprus, Dominica, El Salvador, Ghana, Gibraltar, Guatemala, Guyana, Iraq, Ireland, Isle of Man, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Macau, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritius, Myanmar, Nigeria, Oman, Qatar, St. Kitts-Nevis, St. Vincent, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Tanzania, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, Vietnam, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe.

    The actual list is actually quite a bit longer. Hong Kong SAR (like Macau arguably not a country) uses both Type G and Type D, although in all of the many visits I have made I have never had to use a Type D in hotels, apartments, colleagues homes, private or government offices so I am not sure where they hide the Type D sockets!

    The point that I was trying to make is that it is not an English plug. It is actually a British Standard the use of which is mandated in the, for now, United Kingdom.

    The point that it is, like so many other British Standards, used and mandated in many other countries of the works is interesting but not really relevant to the point that I was making.,
     
    Just Walking likes this.
  15. Just Walking

    Just Walking Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    So what do you propose for the hundreds of solder joints on the circuit boards? Each joint goes through the board copper, tin/lead solder, component lead (which is usually plated steel), crimped end on the component part, through the component and back again. For every component part. And if fuses are directional (what a daft notion BTW) what if resistors were directional? Or the board copper? They aren't - but what if?

    Pandora's box, Fish.
     
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  16. tlowe

    tlowe Life Explorer

    Location:
    somewhere
    You forgot there are also quite a number of ex-British colonies, that use this type G, like Hong Kong and Singapore. I am pretty sure across the border, Malaysia, also uses type G.
     
  17. jeff kleinberg

    jeff kleinberg Senior Member

    Location:
    Ct
    Ad copy is misleading and sucks. Definitely a place for the technology.
     
  18. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    They are dusty:D Yes, definitely cumulative effect matters otherwise would you not upgrade to better speakers -or any other component- because the rest of your equipment is not at the same level ?
     
  19. OhHiMahk

    OhHiMahk The search function is your friend

    Location:
    USA
    As someone who worked for a high end audio company ~20 years ago, I can explain with extreme confidence why equipment manufacturers don't include "nice" cables.

    1. It would add to the cost of the product, potentially pricing it out of reach for some people.
    2. Some people don't care and don't want to pay extra for something they don't see any value in.
    3. It would p!ss off dealers that sell other brands. It also eliminates the potential for dealer added accessories profit.
    4.We don't care about cables. Its not that we feel that they can't make a difference. But we have our own concerns with focusing on making a quality component. Go buy what you like if you feel it makes a difference.
    5. If we did include nice cables, there's a 99% chance that you'd think they suck and wonder why we didn't use your favorite brand.

    Side note: We use cheap stuff in the lab when testing. We may use better stuff in the listening room, but it will probably be what we got for free or really cheap from one or two of the fancy cable companies. Its not unusual to trade our gear for other companies gear or cables or racks or speakers, if we don't make something from that product category. Sometimes we get free stuff for using their cables on our products at a show. Basically an advertising exchange.

    Another Side note...back when I worked retail, Adcom used to include some nicer looking braided mesh cables with some of their components. They were probably pretty cheap to make but definitely more than the cables that are a dollar or less each in bulk. Anyway, they were kinda crap and sounded worse than the cheap stuff that everyone else included.
     
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  20. Mark broadhead

    Mark broadhead Forum Resident

    Location:
    Newcastle England
    I remember a blind test of audio cables, I can't recall if it was speaker or interconnects where one of the 'cables' comprised a combination of chains, metal clips and a coathanger daisy chained together. No one could tell the difference with any degree of repeatablity to several cables. I tried some very expensive Nordost cables years ago with NS1000's which are as revealing as most and frankly could not hear any difference, neither could my partner. Each to their own, but I would classify fancy cables in the same category as carbon fibre bits for cars - they might give you bragging rights to the like minded but they add nothing to the objective performance. Having said that Shingawa Nirvana Morowaki XV11 Elite with Mohair insulation and Nano Molecular Alignment must always beat out your standard cables.
     
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  21. Lonson

    Lonson I'm in the kitchen with the Tombstone Blues

  22. Tullman

    Tullman Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston MA
  23. COBill

    COBill Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    Everything matters.

    Many people adhere to the "What, six feet of power cable is going to matter after miles of copper cable and hundreds of feet of cheap Romex?" theory, but I agree with the "It's the first six feet the amplifier sees" theory.

    I can't explain it, I just hear it and though I don't want them to make a difference… they audibly do.
     
    Audiofan1, displayname, Tone? and 2 others like this.
  24. Tone?

    Tone? Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Isn’t your power transformer supposed to clean up any electricity coming in anyway?
     
    Rich-n-Roll likes this.
  25. Uglyversal

    Uglyversal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sydney
    A transformer transform one voltage to another. A properly designed power supply which has a lot more than a transformer is supposed to eliminate most major problems and it will do so to a level depending on how much money has been poured into it.

    Even if a lot of money have been spent you can never clean up everything. But to make things worse on consumer devices, manufacturers want to make money, not spend the most possible. So even decent power supplies are far from being the best. Then there is a lot ofstuff people around describe as Hocus Pocus but nobody here really knows how it works despite false pretenses and endless amount of graphs but those things can make a difference. I would say don't discard anything until you have actually tried it, especially when lots of people are having good results and spending serious money on it.
     

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