My view in the topic is that if there is a meaningful difference to be made, it would likely be most evident with the initial step up from a basic cable, to a well designed and constructed three-figure alternative. So, I purchased three, all used, that originally retailed for between $300-$800, and don't even bother to think about upgrading further, as I expect the law of diminishing returns would prevent any decent ROI, so to speak. Perhaps I am missing something big, but I rather doubt it.
You're not missing anything here. But mind it's a test of personal hearing thresholds as well. We all are here to satisfy our ears, but your ears are not mine. Only you can tell what's best for your ears, and only I can tell what's best for mine. So discussions what's audible and what's not don't make sense. Everyone has to get to this answer for himself. Mine logic on this was, after I heard the difference not just with different power cables, but with different (quality) connectors as well, that there's space and there's meaning, at least for me. But I'm not eager to spend crazy figures, I wouldn't do it for power cables. If there is good, much cheaper alternative. There is. I found my happiness with Elecaudio, Lapp and Wattgate, and the cost is really nothing crazy. I assemble them myself, of course.
Agreed. In the case of cords I don't think it's a matter of has it improved the system but what was the cost of that improvement, and is it justified.
I would have thought if very expensive fancy copper mains cables made that much sonic difference then manufacturers would be supplying them with their products? They don't so .....
Absolutely! Of course one should never ever stray from what the manufacturer has provided to get one started.
This had been addressed many times. It would make no economic sense for component manufacturers to supply expensive power cords, and for a number of reasons. Even if they were in positions to produce such cords (most aren't, and it would be very expensive to develop the capability), they would not want to raise the cost of the components significantly for an accessory that many third-party vendors supply, and for which there is no consensus on the need to upgrade. When audiophiles experiment with, or purchase aftermarket power cords, they obviously do so within the context of their systems, and there are many variables to consider. There would be no way for a manufacturer of an amplifier, for example, to know how a particular cord might affect the sound of its products with all of the possible permutations of pre-amps, DACs, sources, speakers, rooms, etc. Never mind power conditioners and other cables. The closest that we have seen to something along those lines relates to vibration control, as some manufacturers have, for example, begun to include products such as Isoacoustic Gaia feet with their speakers. It's probably fair to say, though, that the potential impact of vibration control is much less controversial than that of power cords. FWIW, and like many others, I have no doubt whatsoever that power cords can make a meaningful difference in sound, but would never make sweeping statements about individual cords given how system dependent the outcomes can be.
Power cables matter HUGELY, in my experience. I was totally surprised and blown away by that fact when I tried swapping power cables out and the changes weren't subtle at all.
Let me guess.......... NIGHT and DAY difference?? Wife noticed from the kitchen even?? Teen daughter even asked "Dad" what did you do, it sounds so much better!! If it was true they even made ANY difference, yet alone your HUGELY difference, Dont ya think by now there would be something of concrete evidence backing it up or a general consensus about it?? I mean Claims are a dime a dozen online.
As a retired musician, it makes me wonder why none of the musicians, PA hire companies or engineers I ever came across over many years , used anything other than sturdy reasonably priced cables. Wonder why the high end cable manufacturers have never got any traction in the pro audio industry?
I have only read this page, sorry, but has anyone said or tried this: I have a bunch of romex wire and some 3 prong plugs. Just buy an IEC plug and make a cable. Then the cable is the same wire as from the breaker box. Sure, it's not to code, but to try it out for listening?
Oddly enough none. By now there would be SOMETHING to back up all the exaggerated claims we all see online. My best guess mostly cable shills exaggerate up and create this stuff or guys with very overactive imaginations.
I think the aftermarket cables look nicer. If I experienced any noticeable change, it must have been subtle. A little bit of the "blackground" improvement is probably the only thing I noticed. And... I'm not sure I could notice if I did an A/B comparison. Perhaps confirmation bias? Who knows. Things didn't get worse, though. The do look nicer. YMMV.
Presumably the requirements of PA systems differ significantly from home audio, as well as the resulting sound. It is easy to believe that nuances that can be heard on high-end home systems might not be audible on PA systems.
About my experiences also. Besides not really finding anything even close to confirming cables as far as measurements or evidence in even blind tests, it looks to be mostly a dead end. Get decent quality, and maybe "hope" for something positive, but do not make wagers on being able to discern differences for sure!
Thanks for your opinion. I don't doubt that a "good" cable can be had for <$100, but the salient question is whether or not that standard can be bettered, and in the experiences of countless audiophiles, including myself, the answer is a resounding yes.
Because you wont hear much of a difference, there is little "audiophile fidelity" in pro-audio. If anything Pro-Audio speakers or monitors are overly neutral, clear, sharp and detailed and not particularly musical. Ive tried very good monitors in my listening rooms and they always sort of suck. Studios have playback systems so they can monitor what the mix will sound like in the "real world" outside of the "studio world" - they are very different. Every time I hear someone say "I want it to sound like it did in the studio" I want to reach out and smack them across the face. They have No idea what they're asking for. Pro-audio cables need to be well made and shielded since they tend to be run and draped over other gear and walked over. They are also designed for Long runs and tend to get beat-up and replaced. They are Not the weakest link in the chain, on location. There are SO Many other things that cant be avoided. Indoor or outdoor, endless hurdles. Absolutely Nothing like your home listening room. Studio cabling can get expensive, Audioquest is used in studio's allot. Belden Wire is huge, takes lot of meters of wire and time making cables too. Ive heard of JPS Labs beign used in Studios, as well as MIT. But no, its not common. Studio owners are to cheap. And all the "studio" magic is done at mastering anyway. And a live performance is what it is. Apples to Pineapple comparison.
Extremely doubtful. How do you explain off there being no concrete evidence of any of this?? No measurements to back it up? No verifiable blind tests to prove it? A claim on an internet forum, is a dime a dozen.
Explain how one can "Troll" a thread, about a subject that to many find borderline laughable. There is zero proof cables do anything at all, yet many will come here and make silly over exaggerated claims. Are the ones making huge claims the trolls, trying to get reactions from people that do not fall prey to confirmation bias, or are the ones finding this stuff almost laughable and trying to make realistic comments the trolls?? When the title is "Do they matter", do they matter in REALITY, or do people simply "Believe" they matter and have not done any legwork to do an actual blind test or see if they truly can tell one from another? Seems as a moderator you would have to fall on one side or the other and that would make your thread ban threats based on your beliefs right?
Yes, a single claim carries relatively little weight. But we're talking about the aggregate weight of the experiences of a huge number of audiophiles, reviewers and manufacturers. The argument that all of those people are either intentionally being dishonest, or suffer from some kind of bias, defies credulity. There are plenty of things that cannot be measured in audio. Can you measure how a component impacts the soundstage? Can you measure how a component might precisely impact the tone or timbre of an instrument? Etc. As for verifiable blind tests, it would depend on what you mean by "verifiable". Paul McGowan, to use one example, the founder of PS Audio, explains how he came to recommend a competitors power cable over those of his own company in the video below. He had great incentive to prefer those produced by his own company, yet after extended testing on their very best system, including blind testing with both professionals and audiophiles, arrived at the conclusion that the other (Audioquest?) was superior. In other words, his conclusion was directly contrary to what would be expected to result from objectivists' claims of bias. Were the tests that he performed "verifiable"? That would depend on one's definition, I suppose. But the likelihood of him being dishonest about the results is virtually nil. Finally, I'll quote @Adagio on the topic:
Seriously? So you're calling me and others trolls because you cant hear the difference on your gear? Or maybe you never tired it or simply dont want to hear it! Ive A/B'ed things to DEATH for over 30 years. I dont need to perform like a monkey and gather my notes in a binder for you. And we all know what you'd do with it anyway. I also dont need to convince anyone or justify anything. I share real-life experiences from myself and others I know, and im only here looking for the same from others. If that goes away, where those people leave here then so will I. It'll just turn into another "Cheap Audio Guy" forum. Plenty of that on YouTube. Wire differences and audible characters are obvious and clear to me and hundreds of thousands of others as well. And its been going on for a Long time. This forum tends to be more so full of musicphiles that spend too much time on the hardware pages and have way too much to say, to much opinion and no shared experience of substance. Just let it go dude. Let people that do hear and can contribute constructive information for others alone. God knows, decadeds ago I would have greatly appreciated this. And saved $$ and endless time buying, making and listening to wire. now back to our regularly scheduled program.
First time poster. In my opinion and experience...you know what that's worth, it's not the cable it's the plug. I have my own theory of why that is but since I'm not an EE I'll save looking foolish for some other time. True story. I changed out the plug on my amplifier and put some familiar music on and immediately my wife came running downstairs asking me what did I do to the sound. Sound was definitely clearer and more detailed so much so that from another floor in the home another person noticed the difference. I know that's only one person's experience but it was truly blind in that she didn't know what I was doing but experienced a significant and better difference. So for $16.78 plus tax at Home Depot you can try this amazing device. The Leviton 5266C. No, I don't work for Leviton. I have, however, given this plug as a birthday gift a number of times. YMMV
Can you convince me you can TRULY hear this difference, is there actual evidence in measurements? A lot of claims that are not verified in any way, evidence. You are using the same tired arguments, when one can not back up what they say. You are getting angry cause there is nothing concrete to back this stuff up. It is merely snake oil, and frankly a bit shocked that it is even allowed on most forums. It is up to You, not me to prove what you say, but as you say, "you do not have to nor feel inclined to prove anything" This is how all these type of threads go. Big claims, no evidence, no proof,, no measurements and so on. No it is not UP to you to prove anything, but I have no way to prove you are wrong, so looks like from your end would be far easier.
