Pre-dusting high quality routine after wet/ultrasonic cleaned LPs

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Jenn2021, Nov 15, 2021.

  1. Jenn2021

    Jenn2021 Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Hello Neil,

    I was wondering if you had any opinion of the;
    StaticWisk-141 Anti-Static Brush – 5.5″ w/ Grounding Cord

    I called the Company and they said some customers are using this on Vinyl records.
    I like the Tiger cloth, but was wondering if this might be soft enough or effective enough on the acrylic platter or lightly on the
    record while on the platter to remove dust.

    Regards
     
  2. pacvr

    pacvr Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland
    Jenn,

    The brush material is VI.8.b THUNDERON®: An extremely soft acrylic fiber that has been chemically bonded with a layer of copper sulfide. This outer layer becomes a part of the host fiber itself, which precludes the 'flaking' problem experienced by other conductive fibers. The fiber diameter is available in two diameters, 0.07 mm (0.0028"/~70 μm) and 0.11 mm (0.0043"/~110 μm). Its conductive layer is a super thin 300-1,000 (angstroms). Thunderon® has an electrical specific resistance of 10¹ - 10²Ω cm.”. Thunderon® while classified as conductive, is not as conductive as carbon fiber, but the bristle diameter will not deeply penetrate the record groove and the product flexibility is less prone to fracture and breaking off. The common brush design has the bristles embedded in a conductive plastic handle.

    Most THUNDERON brushes include goat hair to help stiffen the brush. You can buy 100% THUNDERON from Gordon Brushes 1 x 22 Row Thunderon® Conductive Short Handle Brush 900437T - Gordon Brush - it does not have the ground wire - you are the ground - just touch something metal while brushing. Grounded it will only be partially effective at reducing static; this report is evidence of that - Microsoft Word - SEALEZE_WHITE_PAPER_Final dam.doc. I have the same Kinetronics brush w/o the ground and its only marginally effective at removing dust; but very good at moving it. I no longer use it. When I had static issues - it did very little for me - YMMV.

    Now I have no major static issues (the cleaning, the mat, the grounded platter). I found for me the Tiger cloth worked; I had it on hand from the cleaning process and tried it - I cut a piece from the cloth. It does not create static and whatever particles it picks up are easy to remove by just shaking the cloth.

    Neil
     
    Jenn2021 likes this.
  3. In-capacitor

    In-capacitor Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles

    Yesterday I’ve made the turntable mat using my esd safe cutting mat for bookmaking( worth the sacrifice!) self healing middle white (don’t know the material and the two green grids..total of 2mm ..the I’ve added on top 1mm PU self adhesive 3M esd proof faux leather,same as shoes one (I have many rolls and colors) went for brown .....I have to say this ..I’m using a nagaoka mp 110h so not expecting much ,
    I’ve put the “millennium concert “of the eagles that I’m super familiar to every passage note etc THE SOUND!!!amazing never been so quiet not an hint of static and it sparkled all the way everything much more in unison..maybe I’ve got lucky with the sound signature of the materials or the combo

    I’m not usually taken by surprise , I wish that I could share the before and after moment.

    ive retired the acrylic and cork/rubber mat for good
     
    pacvr likes this.
  4. pacvr

    pacvr Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland
    Self-healing cutting mats appear to be mostly PVC and can be upwards of 5-layers:
    -Vantage® Self-Healing Cutting Mats To Protect Surfaces | Dahle
    -24 In. X 36 In. 5-Ply Cutting Mat, Green/Black — U.S. Art Supply (usartsupply.com)
    -OLFA RM-MG 24" x 36" Green Double-Sided Self-Healing Rotary Mat – OLFA.com

    Although none make any mention of being ESD safe? Do you have link for the mat you used - just curious. Otherwise, as they say - Well Done!
     
  5. Ripblade

    Ripblade Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Six
    ESD safe or not, can't get much closer than PVC on the triboelectric scale, so there should be little or no static. Mechanical impedance should be a fairly close match with the vinyl as well, presenting dynamics in the correct proportion to the recorded waveform. If the mat can also suppress platter resonances it should perform as a very good mat.
     
  6. pacvr

    pacvr Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland
    I have seen that theory addressed a number of times, but not convinced that is what is happening. For one thing the PVC record is quite hard and tends not to be measured on a durometer scale, while flexible-PVC is soft enough to be measured on a durometer scale. From my engineering background this is how I understand mechanical impedance - A Guide to Mechanical Impedance and Structural Response Techniques (bksv.com); and this article on record mats Audio-1979-06.pdf (worldradiohistory.com) supports the concept that it's about damping. And, in engineering we design for over-damped, critically damped or under-damped depending on the specific system and how we want it to respond to vibration. For records, if the mechanical system is under-damped the results could be distortion, over-damped and transient response is attenuated and details are lost; so critically damped it is; and there are any number of ways to get there.
     
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  7. In-capacitor

    In-capacitor Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    ESD Anti-Static Cutting Mats - From £12.41 - Clear Mats This is the company I’ve used ..for what I could tell from their grid cutting matt is that it doesn’t collect dust like the other surfaces in the workshop..their clear matt is good but is 5mm thick..I might try to make one ☝️ with the matt from the link you provided to see how it behaves on my table,..just love the knowledge exchanges on forums!
     
    pacvr likes this.
  8. In-capacitor

    In-capacitor Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Login • Instagram this is the only way I can share pics ..
     
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  9. In-capacitor

    In-capacitor Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
  10. In-capacitor

    In-capacitor Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
  11. pacvr

    pacvr Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland
    Very nice job putting that together - I would not change to the mat I am using only because I think you at the point of any diminishing return.
     
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  12. Ripblade

    Ripblade Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Six
    Whatever the mechanism, using a PVC mat is the easiest way to achieve the correct critical damping. The triboelectric affinity is just an added bonus.
     
  13. Ripblade

    Ripblade Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Six
    Can't see it, but I've no doubt of your assertions. Well done. I once experimented with using a vinyl record as a mat surface, bonding it to a laminated metal plate to provide mass and damp the platter. It had a very natural dynamic quality....not to soft or too hard. The mat wasn't without its problems (it was quite thick) but static was also happily a non issue.
     
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  14. Jenn2021

    Jenn2021 Active Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    I am interested in making my own DIY platter mat in stead of a cork/rubber mat.
    -Is the number of feet (I have only 3) a factor in determining how many layers of ESD material to use (I need to keep it < 2.5mm due to no VTA adjustment)
    -I have a depression on my Turntable platter (Acriillic), can I still use my spindle weight (304g) effectively after the ESD ?
    -Is the ESD main objective to reduce static, not change the sound ?
    -Will the cut mat need sealing on the edges or will the layers keep together after cutting?

    Thank you.
     
  15. pacvr

    pacvr Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland
    No

    The depression in the platter is for the record label. If you use a DIY ESD mat, it does not have a depression for the label and using only a record-weight will not press the record to the mat. The record will sit above the mat a thickness = to the label thickness. This is why I addressed using a reflex clamp that clamps the record to the mat. Here is a low-cost record clamp Amazon.com: Record Doctor Turntable Clamp (Black) : Electronics. One of the best is - SOTA Reflex Clamp Record Clamping Weight (hifiheaven.net) but there is a slight cost difference.

    If you decide on using an ESD mat and going with a reflex clamp, recall that you need to add a thin rubber or leather washer to mat -see the book Figure 27.

    The ESD mat top surface which is vinyl and the center portion which is something that is generally somewhat soft does both; it reduces static and it damps the record - you get two for one.

    The ESD mats do not require any edge sealing.
     
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